Four Kinds of Forgiveness

@sonship said
Why shouldn't you be made to suffer forever for being against God?

I lack belief in supernatural causality and divine revelations, sonship. I am "against" your god figure no more or less than I am "against" thousands and thousands of other god figures all the way down through human history. What is the purpose of the god figure [in your ideology] torturing people who lack belief, - in burning flames, for eternity? What purpose does it serve?

@sonship said
Is it because you love yourself so much that God should not let you know what He thinks about your irreconcilable enmity ?

I am simply not a Christian, sonship. I simply lack the various beliefs that would qualify me to self-identify as one. It's not "enmity" on my part. It's a lack of belief. I do not believe your god figure is real so I cannot feel "enmity" towards it.

@sonship said
Your deep self love makes your eternal punishment not just of God ?

You're talking to me like I am an errant cult member. You're talking to me like a Scientologist or a Jehovah's Witness tasked with bullying someone back into the cult.

"Your deep self-love makes your eternal punishment not just of God".

What's "deep self-love"? Not being a member of your religion? Not believing the same things you believe?

"Your deep self-love makes your eternal punishment not just of God".

What "God"? There have been countless gods that human beings have believed in or still do.

@FMF

I lack belief in supernatural causality and divine revelations, sonship.

You do not "lack belief" that the Gospel is a coherent message.

Now I am asking you why a goodness above which no goodness is possible, if you think you are above this, why should you not be shown you are not forever ?

You "lack belief" but not so much that you cannot continually pass judgment on what you "lack belief" in.

So if you take up a position of eternal opposition why shouldn't it be just that you experience eternal defeat?

The God you "lack belief" in went to the uttermost degree that you be saved from yourself and the fool hearty wrong choice of your free will.

Why shouldn't you go down with your leader and co-share Satan's destiny as the saved share the destiny of their Savior ?

I am not sure you "lack belief". I think probably you find it more difficult to imagine the Bible is not true then that it is.

I am "against" your god figure no more or less than I am "against" thousands and thousands of other god figures all the way down through human history.

Name one other Forum where you spend as much time arguing against some god that you "lack belief" in.

Where can we see you apply equal effort to debunk Odin or Thor or Zeus? If you treat them ALL THE SAME, where can we see years and volumes of arguments opposing other gods?

What is the purpose of your the god figure in your ideology torturing people who lack belief, - in burning flames, for eternity? What purpose does it serve?

What does it matter what God uses to punish those who are perpetually to blaspheme, insult, and hurl their hatred at Him or His (ideology) ? All that matters is that there is an ultimate defeat to those who oppose that good and beauty beyond which none other can exist.

You say "Its unjust". Now I ask you why so? Is it just unjust because you love yourself ?

If you love yourself then why not choose what would be best - to be justified and reconciled to the Eternal Most High God. Has not He come to die on the cross under divine wrath that you be saved?

You'll say - "I am not a Christian. I don't believe this stuff." But the message, the message - why is it not just that unreconciled rebel be eternally defeated?

How do you know that death will be the end of your ability to sin in your heart ? You don't know that. How do you know that your dislike for God may grow on and on being more at enmity as your separation from Him continues even after physical death?

Its a realm of which you don't know. So why not heed the warnings of the danger from One who does know?

Your next post can explain, even if you "lack belief" why you should not know eternally that no good came from your opposing the ultimate goodness.

@sonship said
@FMF

I lack belief in supernatural causality and divine revelations, sonship.

You do not "lack belief" that the Gospel is a coherent message.

I lack belief that it was divinely inspired. I lack belief that its content has any meaningful consequence for me in my life. I lack belief in the notion of everlasting life it talks about. I lack belief in you when you talk about a creator being having revealed things to you.

@sonship said
You "lack belief" but not so much that you cannot continually pass judgment on what you "lack belief" in.

It's your ideology that is being scrutinized and judged. That is presumably what why you air your ideology on a 'debate and discussion' forum on a non-Christian website, right?

@sonship said
I am not sure you "lack belief". I think probably you find it more difficult to imagine the Bible is not true then that it is.

Tell yourself what you want. There is perhaps no bias more entrenched and indestructible than your own Imagination Bias.

@sonship said
You'll say - "I am not a Christian. I don't believe this stuff." But the message, the message - why is it not just that unreconciled rebel be eternally defeated?

Like all of us, one day I will die and I will be gone forever. If that, in your view, is me being "eternally defeated", then what does it matter? If your beliefs about that give your life meaning and purpose, good for you.

@sonship said
How do you know that death will be the end of your ability to sin in your heart ? You don't know that.

I don't have any reason to believe that death is not the end. And I don't have any reason to believe that "sin" exists except in the minds of religious people.

@sonship said
Your next post can explain, even if you "lack belief" why you should not know eternally that no good came from your opposing the ultimate goodness.

What "ultimate goodness"?

If you want to believe that there is "no good" in my everyday agnostic-atheist life, be my guest.

@sonship said
What does it matter what God uses to punish those who are perpetually to blaspheme, insult, and hurl their hatred at Him or His (ideology) ? All that matters is that there is an ultimate defeat to those who oppose that good and beauty beyond which none other can exist.

Please try to remember you are talking to a non-believer.

@FMF

I lack belief that it was divinely inspired. I lack belief that its content has any meaningful consequence for me in my life. I lack belief in the notion of everlasting life it talks about. I lack belief in you when you talk about a creator being having revealed things to you.

I understand you that you say you lack belief that the Bible is true.

You do not "lack belief" that the message is unjust about eternal punishment. You HAVE belief that that message is a moral abomination.

Why is it just that you finally receive what you want - to be without God and God's government ?

Why is it not good that an ultimate evil deed be ultimately rewarded with everlasting conquest? You get what you want. You get the dubious eternal thrill of thinking " I opposed GOD. Think of it. I was against God!"

You get that endless rush of self congratulations. Why is it unjust that your enjoyment of being forever at enmity with God is accompanied with endless defeat to your comfort ?

Doesn't the message include that this God went as far as it is possible for Him to go that you be saved from yourself in this?
Jesus thought so.

Instead of repeating that you lack belief in this or that, explain why if you're wrong you shouldn't get to know you were wrong forever.

@sonship said
If you love yourself then why not choose what would be best - to be justified and reconciled to the Eternal Most High God. Has not He come to die on the cross under divine wrath that you be saved?

I lack belief in the "Eternal Most High God" you talk about and find the torturer god ideology part of your beliefs morally incoherent.

@sonship said
Where can we see you apply equal effort to debunk Odin or Thor or Zeus? If you treat them ALL THE SAME, where can we see years and volumes of arguments opposing other gods?

We have all been waiting for proponents of Odin or Thor or Zeus to turn up and propagate their beliefs and ideology. No doubt, when they do, they will find me aggravating.

@sonship said
You say "Its unjust". Now I ask you why so? Is it just unjust because you love yourself ?

What does "love yourself" mean?

Does it mean "not subscribe to sonship's religion"?

Would it be "just" if Odin or Thor or Zeus tortured me for eternity - after I die - for lacking belief in them?