05 Aug 19
1 edit
@sonship saidJesus assures those who follow His commandments.
Reward is not assured.
Eternal redemption and eternal life are assured.
Likely about 98% of the objections certain posters would raise to this thread would concern verses in the NT which warn of losing the reward related to the millennial kingdom.
In fact even some possible agreement with me, may mistakenly ALSO refer to some verse on dispensational punishm ...[text shortened]... surance of Salvation remains undeniable.
But the assurance of Reward during the millennium is not.
05 Aug 19
2 edits
@sonship saidA pile of unscriptural church BS. : Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (Matthew 5:12 KJV)
Reward is not assured.
Eternal redemption and eternal life are assured.
Likely about 98% of the objections certain posters would raise to this thread would concern verses in the NT which warn of losing the reward related to the millennial kingdom.
In fact even some possible agreement with me, may mistakenly ALSO refer to some verse on dispensational punishm ...[text shortened]... surance of Salvation remains undeniable.
But the assurance of Reward during the millennium is not.
There are earthly rewards in this life, and there are heavenly rewards in the next life as Jesus states categorically. Both are assured, but they are assured ONLY TO THOSE WHO FOLLOW HIM. Again this is clearly stated by Christ.
And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. (Mark 10:29-30 KJV)
Rewards are of two kinds - EARTHLY AND HEAVENLY [ETERNAL LIFE]
The mouth worshipers and preachers of mouth worship [like you], are not assured or anything except eternal damnation if they do not change.
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05 Aug 19
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A pile of unscriptural church BS. : Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (Matthew 5:12 KJV)
There is no inconsistency.
The believers are assured eternal redemption for faith.
The believers are promised reward during the next age, the millennial age, for living the highest standard of morality as kingdom people.
The latter is recompense for denying the old life and living by the new life received in Christ the King.
The former is the gift to all who obey to believe in Christ. The quickest way perhaps to prove this is with the apostolic warning of First Corinthians 3:13-15.
The word of each will become manifest for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one's work. (v.13)
If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward; (v.14)
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (v.15)
I think Rajk999 must hate these verses because they are so clear.
1.) There will be the eternally saved who are rewarded in addition at the second coming of Christ.
2.) There will be the eternally saved but who suffer temporary loss at the second coming of Christ (but they are saved yet so as through fire).
Usually Rajk999 tries to save his teaching from these clear verses by refering down to verse 17 about "God will destroy him" - the one who destroys the temple of God.
Try as he does nothing in verse 12 nullifies the crystal clear indication of verses 14 and 15.
Now books rather than posts could be written about the distinction between the gift and the reward. One I recommend to the careful Bible student would be
"The Judgment Seat of Christ" by D.M. Panton, published by Schoettle Publishing.
It is of 79 pages. And I think anyone who looks up all the references Mr. Panton uses to develop the thesis should be persuaded of the book's teaching.
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05 Aug 19
In Matthew's extensive discussion on the highest level of morality needed for the reward of the millennial kingdom - the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens, nothing nullifies what what the NT shows as:
Assurance based on the Will of God
Assurance based on the Selection and Calling of God
Assurance based on the Love and Grace of God
Assurance based on the Righteousness of God
Assurance based on the Covenant of God
Assurance based on the Power of God
Assurance based on the Life of God
Assurance based on God Himself
Assurance based on the Redemption of Christ
Assurance based on the Power of Christ (?)
Assurance based on the Promise of Christ
God can at the same time eternally secure one's redemption so that it is un-revocable AND give them an incentive to let Christ take over their whole living in the church age FOR a reward in the period following His second coming.
That is all the time I have for many hours today.
05 Aug 19
@sonship saidSo, there is "eternal redemption" for "believers" who do not follow Jesus' commandments but they will miss out on the "reward"? Is that what you are saying?
The believers are assured eternal redemption for faith.
The believers are promised reward during the next age, the millennial age, for living the highest standard of morality as kingdom people.
05 Aug 19
@sonship saidSo, "eternally secure redemption" has nothing to do with following Jesus' commandments. "Eternally secure redemption" has nothing to do with morality or deeds, it is simply about believing certain things about oneself, and Jesus and God, right?
God can at the same time eternally secure one's redemption so that it is un-revocable AND give them an incentive to let Christ take over their whole living in the church age FOR a reward in the period following His second coming.
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Sonship I see you are avoiding my question ~ I do wonder why.
Will you be acknowledging your human source for this mega-blog of 11 points?
Now that is suppose to be very interesting? Is that question pregnant with crucial significance? Elaborate for us the significance of my not bothering to answer your question if you think it contributes to the subject of Reasons for Assurance of Salvation.
If it is just a distraction or a red herring to branch off to another argument you might not bother. But that's up to you.
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06 Aug 19
@sonship saidAsking you to source you 'Eleven Reasons for Assurance of Salvation' is a perfectly reasonable request, and to be honest a request that really shouldn't have to be made.
@divegeester
Sonship I see you are avoiding my question ~ I do wonder why.
Will you be acknowledging your human source for this mega-blog of 11 points?
Now that is suppose to be very interesting? Is that question pregnant with crucial significance? Elaborate for us the significance of my not bothering to answer your question if you think it contribu ...[text shortened]... ction of a red herring to branch off to another argument you might not bother. But that's up to you.
What are you, a forum newbie?
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06 Aug 19
7 edits
There are earthly rewards in this life, and there are heavenly rewards in the next life as Jesus states categorically.
You may think that by saying "heavenly rewards" you are talking about going TO heaven in order to get the reward. This would be not be necessarily the case.
As the phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" means the kingdom whose ORIGIN and whose SOURCE is God in heaven, so "your reward is great in heaven" means the source of the great reward is not of this earth but of God in heaven.
Abraham was promised that he would be "heir of the WORLD." (Rom. 4:13)
"For it was not through the law that the promise was made to Abraham or to his seed that he would be the heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith." (Romans 4:13)
Abraham was promised that he and his seed would be heir of where ? ... "the world". Yet the bible says that all his life long of faith he waited for a heavenly country.
"But as it is they [Abraham and his family] long after a better country, that is a heavenly one. " (Hebrews 11:16a)
Abraham had faith that he would inherit the world yet he expected it to be a "heavenly ... country". The source of the kingdom on the earth would be from God in heaven.
"And if indeed they continued to remember that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.
But as it is, they long after a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God,
for He has prepared a city for them. " (Heb. 11:15-16)
The city is the which will be on the earth, heavenly in source and in nature, whose "Architect and Builder is God" - the New Jerusalem.
The New Jerusalem is a reward of recompense to the overcoming saints in the 1,000 years prior to the new heaven and new earth. After the 1,000 years the New Jerusalem is the common portion to all the saints whether they were READY to enter in at Christ's second coming, or were LATE in entering in after the 1,000 period.
By the time of New Jerusalem being the common blessing to ALL the saints of God, ALL the saints of God have been matured to be overcoming victors in the life of Christ.
"He who overcomes will inherit these things ..."
That is all the things pertaining to the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 and 22.
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be God to him, and he will be a son to Me." (21:7)
This post was written to explain mainly that "your reward is great in the heavens" is still a reward pertaining to the planet earth. It does not mean that only by going up into heaven to live forever you can enjoy the reward.
The second point of this post is that READY overcomers enter into the reward of the millennial kingdom at Christ's coming to manifest the kingdom of the heavens on the earth. And the late overcomers who must pass through a remedial period during the time of that enjoyment still enter into the New Jerusalem at the end of that 1,000 year period.
So ALL the saints eventually arrive at the New Jerusalem. All do not do so at the same time. And to be ON TIME when one SHOULD be ready is a reward. And to enter in latter is the common portion of ALL those believers.
It is like students all being assured of graduation.
Some graduate on time and enjoy ceremony.
Yet some attend "summer school" and partake of the graduation latter.
ALL GRADUATE though.
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06 Aug 19
@sonship saidThread reminder:
When we believe in Christ our salvation is secured eternally.
Eleven reasons are given why this is so. This thread is a rebuttal to Rajk999's assault on the assurance of "eternal redemption".
Sonship has so far failed to source the information posted in this thread and appears to be passing it off as his own.
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06 Aug 19
Every 4 to 6 years you tell people about doing good works.
I got it.
Every other day weeks at a time I tell people about Christ as the source of divine life and godly human living.
I emphasize the source.
Ie. " Christ who is our life ... "
"In Him was life ..."
"I am ... the life"
"It is no longer I that live, but Christ that lives within me ..."
Week after week I emphasize Christ as the SOURCE of the divine life God wills to impart into man's being.
06 Aug 19
@sonship saidYour lack of integrity is an issue. You claim that "Jesus is flowing through" you and that you are "becoming more like Jesus", and yet you seem to be engaged in a vanity project involving plagiarism and anti-social sanctimoniousness. Your integrity is an issue, as is mine, and as is Ghost of a Duke's.
Thread Reminder:
Ghost who is proud of displaying that he has no interest in being saved is making an issue of something that in that case wouldn't matter.
06 Aug 19
@sonship saidSo you never tell people that they have to do good works and live righteously as Jesus commanded in this teachings. I thought so.
@Rajk999
Every 4 to 6 years you tell people about doing good works.
I got it.
Every other day weeks at a time I tell people about Christ as the source of divine life and godly human living.
I emphasize the source.
Ie. " Christ who is our life ... "
"In Him was life ..."
"I am ... the life"
[b]"It is no long ...[text shortened]... after week I emphasize Christ as the SOURCE of the divine life God wills to impart into man's being.