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The parable of Christ disciplining one of His servants says that he was punished UNTIL a certain terminating time as when such chastisement was concluded.
"And his lord was angry and delivered him to the tormentors UNTIL .. he should pay all that was owed to him.
So also shall My heavenly Father do to you if you do not forgive each one his brother from his heart." (Matt. 18:24,25)
You are no doubt going to object that two passages are not exactly equivalent. One is about forgiveness of one's fellow servants. The other is about reward or loss suffered.
I know the two passages may not be exactly equivalent. However they both have the SAME principle - one belonging to Christ who suffers yet is not eternally lost.
The parable of Matthew 18:23-35 concerns the Second Coming of Christ. This proves that the discipline to the serving one belonging to Christ is not in the church age but in the age to follow - the millennial age.
In that age one particular case is of a servant of the Lord being disciplined UNTIL and not FOREVER. Until means that the punishment, the suffering of the punishment will come to a CONCLUSION at such a time when Christ deems it is time.
Otherwise Christ would not say it is "UNTIL" a terminal point.
While First Corinthians 3:15 and First Corinthians 5:5 and Matthew 18:34,35 may not be about the exact same lesson, they do all carry the SAME PRINCIPLE -
That is of one belonging to Christ, suffering loss, disciplined for a period of time after His coming back and not eternally.
These three phases prove that the suffing of the three cases is dispensational and not eternal.
1.) "delivered him to the tormentors UNTIL ..." (Matt. 18:34)
2.) "he shall suffer loss, but himself shall be saved ..." (1 Cor. 3:15)
3.) "for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." (1 Cor. 5:5)
Now in the THIRD case, the case of the one turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. He is probably disciplined IN THIS CHURCH AGE by being in the hands of Satan, yet disciplined also by Christ when Christ determines reward OR suffering of loss in the coming kingdom.
The three passages may not be about exactly the same teaching.
But the three passages have a COMMON underlying truth - temporary punishment to the eternally saved servant of Christ.
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25 Apr 19
4 edits
Now it is high time to put into complete context these two verses.
Credit? A lot of what I write here I owe to the Life Study of First Corinthians by Witness Lee.
"Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the spirit of God dwells in you?
If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you." (1 Cor. 3:16,17)
Who are the ones here being warned about being destroyed ?
1.) They are the ones who are members of the church. Because they are corporately the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Would Paul call unbelievers in ANY REGARD as a temple of the Holy Spirit?
Emphatically NO.
2.) Is the Holy Spirit to be taken AWAY from them in the act of God destroying them?
If so then Christ LIED that the Holy Spirit would be given to the disciples --- HOW LONG? FOREVER.
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, the He may be with you FOREVER, Even the Spirit of reality, ... (See John 14:16,17)
So the ones being warned are:
A. Constituents of the church (specifically the church in Corinth).
B. Are a "temple of the Holy Spirit". Compare 3:16 and 6:19.
C. Possessors of that Holy Spirit forever - unto eternity.
What does it mean that God will destroy them?
First of all let it be settled that if you and I are Christians the warning could certainly pertain to us. It could pertain to ME. I have the Holy Spirit.
Temporary discipline after the second coming of Christ could occur to me.
Suffering loss yet being saved could pertain to me.
Being rewarded could pertain to me yet NOT being rewarded could as well.
Having the Holy Spirit forever yet suffering loss of some kind could pertain to me.
Destroying the church not by persecution from outside but by building her with the inferior unholy living could pertain to me.
"Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" (v.16)
The Spirit of God is of course the Holy Spirit the Third Person of the Triune God. Paul wants all believers to know that collectively, corporately they are the temple of God. That is the Holy God. The temple of the Holy Spirit.
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25 Apr 19
2 edits
In Corinth Paul was battling the saints trying to get them to LIVE holy as the Holy Spirit was indwelling them.
Some of them were more prone to live by Greek philsophy.
Some of them were more prone to live by Jewish traditional religion.
Paul says this living temple of the church is holy because of the indwelling Holy Spirit. But if they fail to live under the influence of the indwelling Holy Spirit and come "churching" together they could mar the church with their unholy manner of living.
Instead of the Holy Spirit they are more into living Greek philosophical wisdom. While this impresses the world around them it destroys the temple of God because it is not of the nature of God. It mars, defiles, and defaces the church of God.
This is the destroying of temple of God Paul warns about. Do not attempt to build the church of Christ with your unholy high culture of Greek philosophy RATHER than living out Christ.
Do not attempt to build the church of Christ with your Jewish traditional religion rather than living Christ.
These are inferior building materials. These defile and destroy the new testament church. Unrepentance could lead to the believer coming before Christ and LOSING HER REWARD. She will still be saved but will suffer loss.
He will be saved yet so as through fire and not eternally desrtoyed. But SOMETHING of his old manner of life is terminated by the change of the age. It is no longer the church age. It is at that time the kingdom age of the millennium.
All believers appear before Christ for Him to examine what kind of living they have had. In some cases the unholy living of one who had the Holy Spirit defiled and destroyed the church. It is at that time such living is terminated because of the change of the age.
"If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you."
This discussion is not meant to put anyone under a cloud of depression. It is meant to cause the Christian soberness to rise to the level of First Corinthians chapter three.
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25 Apr 19
4 edits
What causes the worthy materials to be the possession of the saints ?
It is the GROWTH of Christ within.
The growth of Christ within them spontaneously will produce the materials that will build the holy temple and will survive the fiery examination of Christ.
Proved without a shadow of doubt from this:
I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused the growth. (v.6)
The growth of what? The growth of the Jesus planted into the hearts of the believers. It is the growth of a Wonderful Who - Christ in us.
So then neither is he who plants anything nor he who waters, but God who causes the growth." (v.7)
God causes the growth of what? He causes the growth of a WHO. That WHO is the Jesus Christ planted and watered who is in the believers.
The believers are a FARM for growing Christ.
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's cultivated land [or farm] God's building." (v.9)
The local church is a FARM for growing Christ in people.
The more Christ grows in people the more the BUILDING takes place of the living temple of the church.
So to build one must grow. The helpers of the apostles are there to plant and water. God CAUSES the growth of Christ in the believers submitting themselves to the planting and watering of the servants of God.
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25 Apr 19
1 edit
The foundation of the building is Christ.
And the material to build UP the building is also Christ.
According to the grace of God given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid a foundation, and another builds upon it. But let each man take heed how he builds upon it.
For another foundation no one is able to lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
The foundation of the church is the living available Person of Jesus Christ.
The building material to erect the living temple upon the foundation is also Christ. It is the Christ who GROWS in the believers who are the FARM of God, the BUILDING of God.
" .. you are Gid's cultivated land [or farm] God's building."
Christ growing produces the proper materials for building on the foundation.
But if anyone builds upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, stubble,
The word of each will become manifest, for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one's work, of what sort it is." (vs.12.13)
Gold will survive - it signifies the divine nature of the Father.
Silver will survive - it signifies the redemption of Christ.
precious stones will survive - they signify the transforming work of the Holy Spirit.
The work of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit will produce the Christ as building material which will survive the examination of testing fire before Jesus when He comes.
The worldly things which are not of the Triune God are plentiful but inferior. They will be burnt up. This will cause the one who produced them to suffer loss.
The natural living is not holy. The Holy Spirit is the Triune God living and working from within the saints. Only His work of working Himself INTO the "fabric" of our personality will cause the building material that will not be burned up in the examination before the judgment seat of Christ.
Living by them will result in growth and holiness in living and the building of the living temple of God and reception of the reward at the beginning of the next age of the millennial kingdom.
25 Apr 19
1 edit
What absolute voluminous garbage !! .
DESTROYED
CAST OUT
WILL NOT INHERIT
CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE
Can never by no stretch of the imagination still mean eternal life
I pity all the fools that follow your stupid doctrine
Maybe you have been drinking too much 'Holy Milk' from Witness Lee
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25 Apr 19
@rajk999 saidOh the irony. Yet somehow LOST means SAVED?
What absolute voluminous garbage !! .
DESTROYED
CAST OUT
WILL NOT INHERIT
CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE
Can never by no stretch of the imagination still mean eternal life
I pity all the fools that follow your stupid doctrine
Maybe you have been drinking too much 'Holy Milk' from Witness Lee
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
25 Apr 19
What absolute voluminous garbage !! .
DESTROYED
CAST OUT
WILL NOT INHERIT
CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE
Can never by no stretch of the imagination still mean eternal life
I pity all the fools that follow your stupid doctrine
Maybe you have been drinking too much 'Holy Milk' from Witness Lee
What would be more interesting would be your point by point rebuttal.
Did you get kicked out of the Jehovah's Witnesses ?
Did you learn some stuff from them and then kick them out of your house?
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25 Apr 19
Rak999 says of me -
Maybe you have been drinking too much 'Holy Milk' from Witness Lee
How MANY years has this poster been here trying to teach the Bible and he is STILL hung up on the most basic aspects of salvation - the real "milk" of the New Testament.
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
Ten years latter and still from Rajk999
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
25 Apr 19
@sonship saidWrong. Ten years later you still cannot repeat what I said and you fail to understand what Christ said as well. Its about who gets eternal life in the Kingdom of God.
Rak999 says of me -
Maybe you have been drinking too much 'Holy Milk' from Witness Lee
How MANY years has this poster been here trying to teach the Bible and he is STILL hung up on the most basic aspects of salvation - the real "milk" of the New Testament.
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
"Who ge ...[text shortened]... gets saved and who doesn't"
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
"Who gets saved and who doesn't"
Ten years later you are still trying in vain to justify sinful Christians, because they call themselves Christians. Whereas all the teachings of Christ and the Apostles condemns them. They are destroyed. Cast out. Cut off. Burned. Cast into the lake of fire.
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25 Apr 19
1 edit
Ten years later you are still trying in vain to justify sinful Christians, because they call themselves Christians. Whereas all the teachings of Christ and the Apostles condemns them. They are destroyed. Cast out. Cut off. Burned. Cast into the lake of fire.
Quote me in this thread justifying sinful Christians.
You would benefit by reading your New Testament sometime.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Well, Apostle Paul, you see there is this guy on the Internet called Rajk999. He's here to condemn the justified.
Who shall bring a charge against God's chosen ones? It is God who justifies.
Well Apostle Paul this guy Rajk999 says it is me sonship who justifies.
"It is God who justifies. Who shall bring a charge against God's chosen ones. "
Well, Apostle Paul, I don't know. There is this guy Rajk999 on the Internet. He is doing his best to bring a charge against God's chosen ones and blaming me for justifying them.
"Who shall bring a charge against God's chosen ones? It is God who justifies.
Who is he who condemns? it is Christ Jesus who died and, rather, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God,
who intercedes or us." (See Romans 8:31-34)
25 Apr 19
@sonship saidWho said God is for you., apart from you ?
@Rajk999
Ten years later you are still trying in vain to justify sinful Christians, because they call themselves Christians. Whereas all the teachings of Christ and the Apostles condemns them. They are destroyed. Cast out. Cut off. Burned. Cast into the lake of fire.
Quote me in this thread justifying sinful Christians.
You would benefit by readin ...[text shortened]... who is also at the right hand of God,
who intercedes or us." [/b] (See Romans 8:31-34) [/quote]
Who said you are justified, apart from you ?
Who said you are Gods chosen, apart from you ?
Your doctrine is condemned by Christ and all of the Apostles. You are like the guy that said his sperm is holy milk and made the women in the church suck his dick to get healed. You people are sick and disgusting. Arrogant and full of yourself.
26 Apr 19
@kellyjay saidAm I vulgar for repeating what your church buddies do? You are a disgusting small minded sycophant KJ. The church that you worship is full of all kinds of sick depraved atrocities and the perpetrators profess to have the Holy Spirit ... like you constantly do. Bunch of sickos
@Rajk999
You are being a vulgar person speaking about people who you don’t know. You would be wise to repent before God holds you accountable for your every word and deed.