@rajk999 saidNo, you wouldn't; if you have to explain why your version of Biblical scripture doesn't line up with the rest of Biblical scripture, you resort to name-calling and belittling. You were shown not everyone would make it; some will be castaway, yet, you don't acknowledge this because it goes against your point of view, which does not line up with the rest of the Bible. It is your go-to when you cannot defend what you say is true, so you insult which is most of the time. Just as you get shown how we are saved by grace, not by our works of righteousness with scripture, you attack the person who points that out to you; you cannot because it cannot be done defend your stance because it goes against the Bible. Your go-to after that is your PERSONAL Jesus, if we disagree with you, we disagree with Jesus, except your Jesus is only found with you, He isn't the one we see in scripture.
You made no comment worthy of a response. Try again. Read the opening post and if you don't understand it then I would be happy to explain.
@kellyjay saidWhat a load of baloney. I have no interest in your petty ranting like a woman. Im interested in establishing what was said about the crucification of Christ. What was it for and who benefitted from it.
No, you wouldn't; if you have to explain why your version of Biblical scripture doesn't line up with the rest of Biblical scripture, you resort to name-calling and belittling. You were shown not everyone would make it; some will be castaway, yet, you don't acknowledge this because it goes against your point of view, which does not line up with the rest of the Bible. It is yo ...[text shortened]... disagree with Jesus, except your Jesus is only found with you, He isn't the one we see in scripture.
The church position is that it is for Christians only, they only by professing faith, get the free gift of justification and eternal life through the Grace of God. This is what Christians call saved by Grace .
The bible tells a different story. The first passage I quoted says that the free gift of justification to eternal life came upon all. Here is the GNB text
So then, as the one sin condemned all people, in the same way the one righteous act sets all people free and gives them life. And just as all people were made sinners as the result of the disobedience of one man, in the same way they will all be put right with God as the result of the obedience of the one man.
(Romans 5:18-19 GNB)
So it appears from that text that ALL people are saved by Grace, so Christians do not have a monopoly on 'saved by Grace'
What is weird is that this does not impact on the salvation of the Christian, who are no worse off. But it appears to bother Christians no end because non Christians are also saved by Grace. Is it that Christians secretly want to see all non-Christians burn in hell for eternity ? What a weird bunch of people.
@rajk999 saidRomans 2:7-9
What a load of baloney. I have no interest in your petty ranting like a woman. Im interested in establishing what was said about the crucification of Christ. What was it for and who benefitted from it.
The church position is that it is for Christians only, they only by professing faith, get the free gift of justification and eternal life through the Grace of God. This is ...[text shortened]... s secretly want to see all non-Christians burn in hell for eternity ? What a weird bunch of people.
English Standard Version
to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,
1 Corinthians 6:8-10
English Standard Version
But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 14
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Revelation 21
And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Matthew 13
He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
I have issues with what you are presenting because what you are promoting is a lie.
28 Dec 21
@kellyjay saidIm not surprised that you are evading the topic and posting irrelevant passages with no comment on what they are about? What I am surprised about is that Christians are showing their true colours. They seem to hate nonChristians to such an extent that they deny what the bible says ... here it is again
Romans 2:7-9
English Standard Version
to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,
...[text shortened]... et him hear.
I have issues with what you are presenting because what you are promoting is a lie.
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.(Romans 5:18 KJV)
Adam brought sin into the world and condemned all men to death
Jesus brought the free gift of justification and eternal life upon all men
Why do you hate non Christians?
28 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidJohn 17
Im not surprised that you are evading the topic and posting irrelevant passages with no comment on what they are about? What I am surprised about is that Christians are showing their true colours. They seem to hate nonChristians to such an extent that they deny what the bible says ... here it is again
[i]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to con ...[text shortened]... the free gift of justification and eternal life upon all men[/b]
Why do you hate non Christians?
And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
The point is a restored relationship with God, you cannot have that while living in sin, or denying God, it is something the Son always had and something God wants with all of us. We cannot earn it, it is to good, and we are not.
28 Dec 21
@kellyjay saidThere is no such expression as .. a restored relationship with God .. in the bible. That is just your church doctrine. So that carries no weight around here,. and we not interested in what you church says. We are interested in what the bible says.
John 17
And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
The point is a restored relationship with God, you cannot have that whil ...[text shortened]... always had and something God wants with all of us. We cannot earn it, it is to good, and we are not.
So here it is again :
Jesus died for the sins of the world.
Pauls said ..the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
ALL are justified. I know that eats you up and you hate it but it is the truth
Jesus said whoever keeps the commandments knows Him
God abides in those who keep the commandments.
All who keeps the commandments get eternal life.
[All of these statements are clearly stated in the bible]
This takes you from Justification through the death of Christ
To eternal life in the Kingdom of God
It is for ALL PEOPLE.
All people who keep the commandments.
You and your church doctrine are in error and committing a grave sin by discouraging people and trying to remove them from the justification that Christ offered to all people.
28 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidThere is a gift of salvation, free as in you cannot buy it, you cannot earn it; if you do either of those, you turn a gift into something earned or paid for.
There is no such expression as .. a restored relationship with God .. in the bible. That is just your church doctrine. So that carries no weight around here,. and we not interested in what you church says. We are interested in what the bible says.
So here it is again :
Jesus died for the sins of the world.
Pauls said [b] ..the free gift came upon all men ...[text shortened]... couraging people and trying to remove them from the justification that Christ offered to all people.
Our walk with the Lord was damaged at the fall of man; it is restored in Christ Jesus, the Christ Jesus of the Bible, not the one you carry around and use to beat people up with. We have the right to become children of God; that doesn't mean all will, some fall away, some stay in their sins and iniquities, and they will remain there.
No one denies good works.
John 17
And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
28 Dec 21
@kellyjay saidWhen you have nothing to say ... say nothing.
There is a gift of salvation, free as in you cannot buy it, you cannot earn it; if you do either of those, you turn a gift into something earned or paid for.
Our walk with the Lord was damaged at the fall of man; it is restored in Christ Jesus, the Christ Jesus of the Bible, not the one you carry around and use to beat people up with. We have the right to become children of ...[text shortened]... Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
28 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidI don’t differentiate people as you do the only ones in right standing with God are His own, who have given themselves to Him. I don’t care what label people paint themselves with or others. Jesus said His sheep know His voice and follow Him.
Try not to eat yourself up because Paul said . ... the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.. I know its hard to accept that even non Christians are justified and on par with Christians.
Will His people be doing good works yes to be His is to be like Him that is the goal, to be one with God as Jesus and the Father are one.
28 Dec 21
@kellyjay saidSo far you have failed to address the contents of the opening post. All you have done is ramble on and on about irrelevant stuff.
I don’t differentiate people as you do the only ones in right standing with God are His own, who have given themselves to Him. I don’t care what label people paint themselves with or others. Jesus said His sheep know His voice and follow Him.
Will His people be doing good works yes to be His is to be like Him that is the goal, to be one with God as Jesus and the Father are one.
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This is basically a thread on Universalism.
Be careful Christians. The more you argue with Rajk999 the more he will think you
are selfishly closing the door of salvation to people.
My attitude is that if a person hopes that everyone WILL be saved, I don't find great fault in anyone having such a hope. In fact Paul said that love hopes all things.
I tried to see the New Testament through Universalist glasses for a time. But my conscience would not allow me to insist that I saw that that is what will happen.
