Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowHoly ----!
I've seen deep fritz declare a forced mate in 107 moves before
Ok, I really thought black could wiggle out of this by giving back a little material when needed. But man, mate in 107??? Are you kidding me? How in the heck does the godforesaken machine ever lose!?
Originally posted by wibI dont think it does, Fevil said hes beat fritz twice before, I can only think that the people who were using fritz arent really that much into computer chess, but still own fritz. Mates of forced 20-50 are common when the engine is left to think for a bit. There is a chess program dedicated just to finding mates, I dont often use it but iv heard that it often bring outs mate in 70.
Holy ----!
Ok, I really thought black could wiggle out of this by giving back a little material when needed. But man, mate in 107??? Are you kidding me? How in the heck does the godforesaken machine ever lose!?
The 3000kn is 3,000,000 moves per a second, down forced lines or tactical games engines are unrivaled.
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowIt is my understanding,those engines only announce mate in,say,30,when endgame tablebases are installed.These come separate,not everyone owns them.I have fritz 7,but no tablebases,I have never seen the thing anounce mate in over 8 moves.And I sure have lost quite a few games against it 😉
I dont think it does, Fevil said hes beat fritz twice before, I can only think that the people who were using fritz arent really that much into computer chess, but still own fritz. Mates of forced 20-50 are common when the engine ...[text shortened]... second, down forced lines or tactical games engines are unrivaled.
Or am I misinformed?
You dont have tablebase ?? Just download a tablebase generator (about 1 meg) and it will make them for you. The 107 mate wasnt all fritz runtime, a lot of it im sure was the tablebase but it wouldnt surprise me if it was 40 moves fritz. Also it was deep fritz, which uses one processor for white and the other for black which speeds things up no end. If you want to see a mate in 40 just drop a few pawns down a couple of kings and leave the pc for a bit, even without tablebases fritz will workout the forced mate in about 20 mins.
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowYeah,I know about those,I think I have 6 engines installed.Just never knew the tablebases are free.I thought you had to buy them on a cd-rom 😕
Yes they are free :-)
Yo can get (free) loads of engines that will work in fritz too. Theres a fair few on the chessbase website.
Yes you can buy the endgame tablebases. They come on 5 DVD's. The reason you would buy them rather than generating them is the huge investment of time needed to generate the higher piece endings.
In these tablebases is stored every possible legal position of the pieces (including kings). So say King vs. King would have around 64*58 (this is a guess) postions all of which are draws. The computer then knows if any of those positions occur it is a draw. Say King vs. Rook and King, a 3 piece endgame, almost all of these positions will be wins for the side with the rook. A few will be draws (those with the unguarded rook en prise with the losing side to move). If at any point during analysis one of these positions is reached the computer can say exactly how many moves to mate or the fact that it is a draw. Say the position is mate in 13 but the computer sees that position coming from 6 moves away. It'll display mate in 19. However these tablebases can lead to strange things. Say you have a postion which would fit a tablebase but for an extra pawn. Sometimes the computer will give up the extra pawn as it sees the win by doing this and can't without doing it. As the number of pieces in the endgame rises the amount of positions rises exponentially. By the time you have complex endgames with say 6 pieces total you have billions of positions all of which have to be processed. Meaning a very large tablebase and a long generation time.
Originally posted by SirLoseALotI have tinkered with ChessMaster and seen it announce a mate in twelve. It solved a mate in twelve in three seconds. I Do not have a up to date ChessMaster. I have used some tests that a G.M. uses to test new programs and ChessMaster is scoreing well. Still ChessMaster is not able to play correnspondence chess with a very good player. I watched a player take it two times. He made ChessMaster look like it is no better than a master level player. Programs do not play better with more time like people do. I have seen David Bronstein play some "bad" moves and beat the program he was playing. It seems like a program can become "confused".
It is my understanding,those engines only announce mate in,say,30,when endgame tablebases are installed.These come separate,not everyone owns them.I have fritz 7,but no tablebases,I have never seen the thing anounce mate in over 8 moves.And I sure have lost quite a few games against it 😉
Or am I misinformed?
If you pick a positional opening then im inclinded to believe that most good players could draw or win against fritz in correspondence. However a lot of it depends on what speed fritz is running at. When this game starts to kick off my fritz is going to examine many many times more variations than Junior did vs Kasparov's OTB game. Fevil's moves will have to match that level of play in the long term because he wont be able to match it in the short term. But once it gets to tablebases, if fritz has a win then nothing can stop it producing that win.
Originally posted by GrayeyesofsorrowInteresting, what are the best openings to play against a computer. I'd love to beat ChessGenius on my pocket pc.... even just once.
If you pick a positional opening then im inclinded to believe that most good players could draw or win against fritz in correspondence. However a lot of it depends on what speed fritz is running at. When this game starts to kick off my fritz is going to examine many many times more variations than Junior did vs Kasparov's OTB game. Fevil's move ...[text shortened]... But once it gets to tablebases, if fritz has a win then nothing can stop it producing that win.
Anything that avoids tactics, Caro Kann, Queen pawn games etc. Someone not long ago (it could have been Ossy) posted about a chess player who used to beat fritz often with some hypermodern system.
The normal ideas for beating fritz is to keep the game simple, then try to get a pawn advantage by using positional play. You have to think long term in beating engines. There is a website with other ideas for beating engines.
I cant find the link right now but i'll post it later :-)