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@no1marauder said"And he was charged and pled guilty to a felony"
Petraeus, unlike Trump, was actually authorized to have the classified information and was charged with the lesser offense of 18 USC 1924. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924
And he was charged and pled guilty to a felony not given the pass you want Trump given.
Apple meet orange.
Are you sure? I read he got a plea deal and it was a misdemeanor.
@metal-brain saidIt appears he was allowed to plead to a misdemeanor. My bad; was more interested in the Reds' game.
"And he was charged and pled guilty to a felony"
Are you sure? I read he got a plea deal and it was a misdemeanor.
Would Trump be willing to plead guilty to a misdemeanor? He'd have to admit in court under oath that he did acts which constituted a criminal offense.
EDIT: Reds win!
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Here's what Petraeus had to agree to:
14. "The defendant will plead guilty because the defendant is in fact guilty of the
charged offense. The defendant admits the facts set forth in the Factual Basis filed with this Plea Agreement and agrees that those facts establish guilt of the offense charged beyond a reasonable doubt. The defendant will plead guilty because the defendant is in fact guilty of the charged offense. The defendant admits the facts set forth in the Factual Basis filed with this Plea Agreement and agrees that those facts establish guilt of the offense charged beyond a reasonable doubt."
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/03/petraeus-plea-agreement.pdf
Do you think Trump would agree to that even if he only got probation and a fine?
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@no1marauder saidTo you think the Petraeus case is comparable to the Trump case?
Here's what Petraeus had to agree to:
14. "The defendant will plead guilty because the defendant is in fact guilty of the
charged offense. The defendant admits the facts set forth in the Factual Basis filed with this Plea Agreement and agrees that those facts establish guilt of the offense charged beyond a reasonable doubt. The defendant will plead guilty because the ...[text shortened]... ea-agreement.pdf
Do you think Trump would agree to that even if he only got probation and a fine?
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@metal-brain saidYou're the one who used it as a "whataboutism"; you tell me.
To you think the Petraeus case is comparable to the Trump case?
The charges Trump faces are more serious than what Petraeus did mainly because the latter actually was authorized to have the national defense materials at the time whereas Trump wasn't but I wouldn't grumble much if Trump got the same type of deal provided he had to do the same thing as Petraeus did i.e. admit he was guilty of criminal conduct under oath in open court.
@no1marauder saidI could not tell you because I do not even know if Trump really showed someone a classified document. I only heard the rumor. Is there any evidence of that?
You're the one who used it as a "whataboutism"; you tell me.
The charges Trump faces are more serious than what Petraeus did mainly because the latter actually was authorized to have the national defense materials at the time whereas Trump wasn't but I wouldn't grumble much if Trump got the same type of deal provided he had to do the same thing as Petraeus did i.e. admit he was guilty of criminal conduct under oath in open court.
Your only basis for saying Trump did not have authorization to have classified documents is because he is not POTUS anymore. Biden was not POTUS when he had them. He even has them before he was VP and was merely a senator. Senators do not have authorization to have classified documents. They are allowed to look at them, but not take them home.
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@metal-brain saidIf you read the indictment, you'd know there's a tape where Trump is recorded doing so and admitting the document was "secret" and that he never declassified it.
I could not tell you because I do not even know if Trump really showed someone a classified document. I only heard the rumor. Is there any evidence of that?
Your only basis for saying Trump did not have authorization to have classified documents is because he is not POTUS anymore. Biden was not POTUS when he had them. He even has them before he was VP and was merely a ...[text shortened]... uthorization to have classified documents. They are allowed to look at them, but not take them home.
I'll pass on the false whataboutism; that Trump was not authorized to have national defense information after he left office is an established fact. But those that he voluntarily turned over he was not charged for, just like Biden and Pence.
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@no1marauder saidJust heard a bit of that tape on Have I Got News For You.
If you read the indictment, you'd know there's a tape where Trump is recorded doing so and admitting the document was "secret" and that he never declassified it.
I'll pass on the false whataboutism; that Trump was not authorized to have national defense information after he left office is an established fact. But those that he voluntarily turned over he was not charged for, just like Biden and Pence.
The orange bastard is going down!
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@no1marauder saidBiden was not supposed to have them either. He only turned them over as soon as he got caught because it was obvious it would look bad if he did not. Biden also had possession of those documents much longer than Trump had his.
If you read the indictment, you'd know there's a tape where Trump is recorded doing so and admitting the document was "secret" and that he never declassified it.
I'll pass on the false whataboutism; that Trump was not authorized to have national defense information after he left office is an established fact. But those that he voluntarily turned over he was not charged for, just like Biden and Pence.
Why are you making a big deal about this anyway? Who did Trump hurt by possessing documents when he had access to all the classified documents he wanted when he was president anyway? You want to make what he did a crime, but it is a victimless crime.
Do you try to get prostitutes convicted of consensual sex too? Who are they hurting?
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@shavixmir saidLike Patraeus?
Just heard a bit of that tape on Have I Got News For You.
The orange bastard is going down!
He got probation and a $100 K fine.
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@metal-brain saidHere's the relevant portion of the indictment:
I could not tell you because I do not even know if Trump really showed someone a classified document. I only heard the rumor. Is there any evidence of that?
Your only basis for saying Trump did not have authorization to have classified documents is because he is not POTUS anymore. Biden was not POTUS when he had them. He even has them before he was VP and was merely a ...[text shortened]... uthorization to have classified documents. They are allowed to look at them, but not take them home.
"⦁ On July 21, 2021, when he was no longer president, TRUMP gave an interview in his office at The Bedminster Club to a writer and a publisher in connection with a then-forthcoming book. Two members of TRUMP's staff also attended the interview, which was recorded with TRUMP's knowledge and consent. Before the interview, the media had published reports that, at the end of TRUMP's term as president, a senior military official (the "Senior Military Official"😉 purportedly feared that TRUMP might order an attack on Country A and that the Senior Military Official advised TRUMP against doing so.
⦁ Upon greeting the writer, publisher, and his two staff members, TRUMP stated, "Look what I found, this was [the Senior Military Official's] plan of attack, read it and just show
... it's interesting." Later in the interview, TRUMP engaged in the following exchange:
TRUMP: Well, with [the Senior Military Official]-uh, let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack [Country A]. Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. This was him. They presented me this-this is off the record, but-they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
WRITER: Wow.
TRUMP: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff-pages long, look.
STAFFER: Mm.
TRUMP: Wait a minute, let's see here. STAFFER: [LaughterJ Yeah.
TRUMP: I just found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins my
case, you know.
STAFFER: Mm-hm.
TRUMP: Except it is like, highly confidential.
STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter]
TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this.
You attack, and-
***
TRUMP: By the way. Isn't that incredible? STAFFER: Yeah.
TRUMP: I was just thinking, because we were talking about it. And you know, he said, "he wanted to attack [Country A], and what ... "
STAFFER: You did.
TRUMP: This was done by the military and given to me. Uh, I think we can probably, right?
STAFFER: I don't know, we'll, we'll have to see. Yeah, we'll have to try to-
TRUMP: Declassify it. STAFFER: -figure out a-yeah.
TRUMP: See as president I could have declassified it. STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter]
TRUMP: Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret. STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter] Now we have a problem.
TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?
At the time of this exchange, the writer, the publisher, and TRUMP's two staff members did not have security clearances or any need-to-know any classified information about a plan of attack on Country A."
Showing secret plans of the US military is a "victimless crime"?
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@metal-brain saidThat's only if the prosecutor offers a similar deal and Trump agrees to admit under oath and in open court that he engaged in criminal conduct.
Like Patraeus?
He got probation and a $100 K fine.
What do you think the chances of that are?
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@metal-brain saidMany of our laws are meant to deter dangerous activity even if the specific act of lawbreaking did no immediate harm.
@no1marauder
You did not answer my simple question.
Who did he hurt?
IF someone drove 75 mph past a stop sign in a school zone but didn't actually hit anyone, should the cop who saw this behavior give them a pass because no one was hurt?
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@no1marauder said“ there's a tape where Trump is recorded doing so and admitting the document was "secret" and that he never declassified it.”
If you read the indictment, you'd know there's a tape where Trump is recorded doing so and admitting the document was "secret" and that he never declassified it.
I'll pass on the false whataboutism; that Trump was not authorized to have national defense information after he left office is an established fact. But those that he voluntarily turned over he was not charged for, just like Biden and Pence.
have you heard it in its full context?
What we have here is a democrat presidential candidate putting the doj on the republican frontrunner…dont try to play it as anything else.