Justifying the Unjustified War

@kevcvs57 said
No they weren’t which would indicate to anyone with an ounce of intelligence and / or integrity that whilst the 2nd Iraq war was not justified it wasn’t as unjustified as an authoritarian state invading a peaceful neighbouring democracy for the purposes of expansion.
Do you think that the US intended to officially annex any part of Iraq?

No, it just intended to install a puppet government which would allow permanent US military bases and have foreign multinationals control the Iraq economy to the detriment of its People (see Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine for details).

These aren't "unjustified" reasons for an invasion of a country in your worldview?

@kevcvs57 said
No they weren’t which would indicate to anyone with an ounce of intelligence and / or integrity that whilst the 2nd Iraq war was not justified it wasn’t as unjustified as an authoritarian state invading a peaceful neighbouring democracy for the purposes of expansion.
Do you think that the US intended to officially annex any part of Iraq?

"...whilst the 2nd Iraq war was not justified it wasn’t as unjustified as an authoritarian state invading a peaceful neighbouring democracy for the purposes of expansion."

- It is irrelevant to my initial post whether some particular war is justified or more justified than some other. Meanwhile, I disagree with you. The 2nd Iraq was in any event less justified than the present Russian invasion of Ukraine. Iraq did not have stores of chemical weapons cited as the reason for war. And Iraq did not pose any threat whatsoever to the mainland US. The US is on the other side of the planet, and Iraq did not have nuclear weapons or ballistic missiles.

The present war in Ukraine and the tensions before it at the end of 2021 are rather more similar to the Cuban crisis.

Nevertheless, my post did not assume anything like that.

The question was indeed about the censorship on any attempts to argue that some particular war is a just war indeed.

@kevcvs57 said
Well if he put forward a compelling justification for the invasion then I guess he would not have been banned.
Stop pretending that a powerful neighbouring nation invading a relatively weak neighbour in order to annex it or large chunks of it is too complicated for the average intellect to figure out, it comes across as dishonest and disrespectful to your fellow posters.

I do not discuss with such persons who systematically misinterpret my text and also say that I am "pretending" something.

@sonhouse said
@EintaluJ
Do you seriously think Putin is justified attacking Ukraine starting in 2014 and continuing to bomb civilians as we speak?

I recommend you to first read the post and only then start to interpret or criticize it.
My text does not talk at all about whether that war is justified or not.

@eintaluj said
Chess grandmaster Sergey Karjakin received a six-month ban from the international competitions, and his appeal was dismissed. When the international chess federation FIDE initiated the case, it accused Karjakin of supporting the unjustified war:

"FIDE Council condemns any public statement from any member of the chess community which supports unjustified military action... ...[text shortened]... d war, and if someone succeeds in doing the impossible, it should be regarded as the greatest crime.

From your post here.........
You said that the player presented compelling arguments to justify the unjustified war.
That to me looks like your opinion. And you haven't provided any backup to your comments.
In other words, you're just trying to troll the forum.

Other than that, I have nothing further to offer to this thread.

@no1marauder said
No, it just intended to install a puppet government which would allow permanent US military bases and have foreign multinationals control the Iraq economy to the detriment of its People (see Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine for details).

These aren't "unjustified" reasons for an invasion of a country in your worldview?

What your describing is not annexation and arguably no worse for the Iraqis than living under the rule of a murderous dictatorship based on minority sectarian rule.
Doesn’t justify that war but it is less unjustifiable than an authoritarian state annexing for perpetuity a neighbouring state or at the very least large chunks of it for its own territorial gain.
You might pretend to believe the BS justifications promulgated by the Kremlin and their trolls but no right thinking person would.
Explain to me again how what the US led coalition did in Iraq somehow justifies what Putin is doing in Ukraine?
Why do you think Putin is slaughtering people in Syria for the purpose of keeping Assad in power? Is it possibly exactly the same geopolitical logic that kept the west constantly meddling in the Middle East.
You must think your debating someone who supported the Iraq war and ongoing support for Saudi. A million people marched in the uk protesting the unjust war in Iraq so as a American you’ll need to find someone else to practice your holier than though routine on.
Didn’t Bush get elected for a second term.

@kevcvs57 said
Well if he put forward a compelling justification for the invasion then I guess he would not have been banned.
Stop pretending that a powerful neighbouring nation invading a relatively weak neighbour in order to annex it or large chunks of it is too complicated for the average intellect to figure out, it comes across as dishonest and disrespectful to your fellow posters.

Hmmmmmm, didn't Saddam Hussein try to do that to Kuwait?

And look where it got him.

@no1marauder said
No, it just intended to install a puppet government which would allow permanent US military bases and have foreign multinationals control the Iraq economy to the detriment of its People (see Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine for details).

These aren't "unjustified" reasons for an invasion of a country in your worldview?

It was yet another failed Libertarian experiment.

You can probably ask Dick Cheney about it.

Rumsfeld is gone, so he can't confirm it.

And probably nobody bothered to clue W in on what was going on.

@kevcvs57 said
What your describing is not annexation and arguably no worse for the Iraqis than living under the rule of a murderous dictatorship based on minority sectarian rule.
Doesn’t justify that war but it is less unjustifiable than an authoritarian state annexing for perpetuity a neighbouring state or at the very least large chunks of it for its own territorial gain.
You might pre ...[text shortened]... one else to practice your holier than though routine on.
Didn’t Bush get elected for a second term.

I never said the US invasion of Iraq justified the invasion of Ukraine; just pushed back on your curious idea that it was less justified than Russia's invasion of Ukraine. At worst, Russia has similar long term goals as the US; more likely, it intends to, as you correctly point out, annex part of Ukrainian territory. That would not be as repressive as US plans in Iraq esp. since a significant portion, perhaps a majority, of the population in those areas would probably welcome annexation.

I've already given my reasons why the Russian invasion is unjustified your constant lying about my position notwithstanding.

@mghrn55 said
From your post here.........
You said that the player presented compelling arguments to justify the unjustified war.
That to me looks like your opinion. And you haven't provided any backup to your comments.
In other words, you're just trying to troll the forum.

Other than that, I have nothing further to offer to this thread.

"You said that the player presented compelling arguments to justify the unjustified war."

Excuse me, RedHotPawn lost the format. It was in italics. It is a conditional argument. That IF someone would present compelling arguments, THEN...

However, it should be clear also without the italics, from the context.

"...you're just trying to troll the forum."

You are sharply accusing me, using an artificial pretext. Your behaviour is malicious. Therefore, it is you who is trolling here.

@kevcvs57 says -
xplain to me again how what the US led coalition did in Iraq somehow justifies what Putin is doing in Ukraine?
-----------------
'Xactly.
The two invasions have nothing to do with one another. Right now, we're on to Ukraine.

@no1marauder says -
I never said the US invasion of Iraq justified the invasion of Ukraine; just pushed back on your curious idea that it was less justified than Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
-----------------------------------------
Now that could make a serious debate right there. Who was more justified for their invasion of a Sovreign Nation, USA or Russia?


🤔 🤔 🤔

@earl-of-trumps said
@no1marauder says -
I never said the US invasion of Iraq justified the invasion of Ukraine; just pushed back on your curious idea that it was less justified than Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
-----------------------------------------
Now that could make a serious debate right there. Who was more justified for their invasion of a Sovreign Nation, USA or Russia?


🤔 🤔 🤔

Since neither was justified, the proper phrasing would be " Who was more unjustified for their invasion of a Sovreign(sic) Nation, USA or Russia?"

In either case, I don't believe chessplayers who voice opinions, even unpopular opinions, on geopolitical matters should be banned from competition.

@EintaluJ
I read your text but I get the impression you are ok with Putin attacking Ukraine. Is that true?

@Earl-of-Trumps
Are you saying you think Putin is justified attacking Ukraine in 2014 and continuing today?