If Trump doesn't leave

@lemondrop said
is there any scenario in which trump could remain in office?

Only if several states change their vote counts. Otherwise, no. Trump's term of office and authority terminate at noon 20.1.2021, come hell or high water. If no clear winner has been declared by that time, the Speaker of House assumes command. If there is no Speaker of the House, then the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS.

@lemondrop said
is there any scenario in which trump could remain in office?

The traditionally red states of Pennsylvania, Georgia and Arizona could go the "faithless elector" route, where their electors give Trump the win, even though Biden wins the popular vote in their states.

About 32 states have laws binding their electors to vote according to the popular vote count; those 3 states are not among them, and would given a 47-point swing, putting Trump in the lead and Biden behind. Trump has already asked states like Georgia to do just that.

USA Today has an article outlining why this the case:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/10/fact-check-state-legislators-choose-electors/6204171002/

The Founders distrusted the common person and allowed Electors to change their vote to keep demagogues likes Trump out; obviously, the Electoral College failed it's intended purpose.

But this is one situation where Trump could legally retain office.

If that happens, then you know democracy has died.

@vivify said
What then? Biden is giving these frustratingly coy answers, like "I don't believe there's a need", etc.

This is Trump. Of course he won't leave.

Serious question: when January comes and Trump doesn't leave: what then? Who do we call? Is that person a Trump appointee? If so, what if he refuses to do his job? Trump already ordered people to defy Congressional subpo ...[text shortened]... ry of state already said there will be a "smooth transition to Trump's second term".

Any ideas?

Why do people seriously think Trump would refuse to leave when his term is up? Has Trump ever said he wouldn't leave?

This is a fabrication from the left. Out of all the stupid things Trump has said he never said he would never leave. GWB took legal action to stop recounts and the democrats said he stole the election. Why didn't they say they were sure he would never leave?

@metal-brain said
Why do people seriously think Trump would refuse to leave when his term is up? Has Trump ever said he wouldn't leave?

This is a fabrication from the left. Out of all the stupid things Trump has said he never said he would never leave. GWB took legal action to stop recounts and the democrats said he stole the election. Why didn't they say they were sure he would never leave?

He said he would only accept the results of the election if he won it, if he doesn’t accept the result why would he leave?
Why are you talking about Gore / Bush again this is nothing like that scenario that one never really played out because Gore conceded too early. In the end it came down to 500 votes not 10s of 000s in the affected states and over 5 million in the National vote. Only a potential dictator would not have conceded by now given the numbers.

@kevcvs57 said
He said he would only accept the results of the election if he won it, if he doesn’t accept the result why would he leave?
Why are you talking about Gore / Bush again this is nothing like that scenario that one never really played out because Gore conceded too early. In the end it came down to 500 votes not 10s of 000s in the affected states and over 5 million in the National vote. Only a potential dictator would not have conceded by now given the numbers.

"He said he would only accept the results of the election if he won it"

What is your source of information? I think you twisted his quote into something he never said.

@vivify said
The traditionally red states of Pennsylvania, Georgia and Arizona could go the "faithless elector" route, where their electors give Trump the win, even though Biden wins the popular vote in their states.

About 32 states have laws binding their electors to vote according to the popular vote count; those 3 states are not among them, and would given a 47-point swing, putting ...[text shortened]... ailed it's intended purpose.

But this is one situation where Trump could legally retain office.

In the words of Enoch Powell, there'd be "rivers of blood" in the streets of America if that were to occur.

@metal-brain said
"He said he would only accept the results of the election if he won it"

What is your source of information? I think you twisted his quote into something he never said.

He said that in 2016 against Hillary:

https://www.npr.org/2016/10/20/498713509/donald-trump-says-hell-accept-the-results-of-the-election-if-he-wins

Given that he's refusing to accept his loss against Biden, that statement clearly still applies.

@vivify said
What then? Biden is giving these frustratingly coy answers, like "I don't believe there's a need", etc.

This is Trump. Of course he won't leave.

Serious question: when January comes and Trump doesn't leave: what then? Who do we call? Is that person a Trump appointee? If so, what if he refuses to do his job? Trump already ordered people to defy Congressional subpo ...[text shortened]... ry of state already said there will be a "smooth transition to Trump's second term".

Any ideas?

What if Trump stays because a legitimate vote count shows he won the election? What then?

And what would that mean for China, Russia and Iran? Trump is not beholden to bad actors half way around the world. In other words, no sweetheart deals that could come back to bite him, or infuence him to stand down and turn a blind eye to potential conflict in that part of the world.
Can the same be said of Biden? Are his hands clean of any corrupt acts that could infuence his foreign policy decisions?

The good news for the US is we are not ( physically) located in the middle of that potential powder keg. As long as we're able to defend our own country the US can afford to be isolationist. We can afford to stay put where we are and not interfere with Chinese, Russian and Iranian plans for middle eastern war and domination.

@lemon-lime said
What if Trump stays because a legitimate vote count shows he won the election? What then?

Then he should remain president. Right now, legitimate vote counts show Biden is president.

@vivify said
What then? Biden is giving these frustratingly coy answers, like "I don't believe there's a need", etc.

This is Trump. Of course he won't leave.

Serious question: when January comes and Trump doesn't leave: what then? Who do we call? Is that person a Trump appointee? If so, what if he refuses to do his job? Trump already ordered people to defy Congressional subpo ...[text shortened]... ry of state already said there will be a "smooth transition to Trump's second term".

Any ideas?

Serious question: when January comes and Trump doesn't leave: what then? Who do we call?

Uhmm, the Ghost Busters?

Seriously, are we supposed to take wild conspiracy theories seriously from people who say they don't take conspiracy theories seriously?

@vivify said
Then he should remain president. Right now, legitimate vote counts show Biden is president.

... legitimate vote counts show Biden is president.

According to who, your Aunt Sally?

Wanting instant gratification doesn't mean you are entitled to instant gratification. If after "legitimate" vote counts show Biden has won then the process of transition can take place. It's not designed to be an instantaneous transition or continuation of power. Calling the race before all legitimate votes are counted is what it appears to be... an attempt to steal the election.

So why are Dems not taking the high ground here and play by the rules; why are they willing to risk the appearance of impropriety?

@lemon-lime said

Serious question: when January comes and Trump doesn't leave: what then? Who do we call?

Uhmm, the Ghost Busters?

Seriously, are we supposed to take wild conspiracy theories seriously from people who say they don't take conspiracy theories seriously?

What conspiracy theory? You mean Trump's own words?

Like when he said he'd only accept an election result if he won? Or when Trump called his loss a "fraud" and is constantly tweeting he will fight the results? Or Trump's own Secretary of State saying "there will be smooth transition to a second Trump term"?

Like that "conspiracy theory"?

What does General Mattis (callsign CHAOS) have to say? He's the most gung ho and bloodthirsty general we have today from what I can tell.

EDIT

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”

He goes on to contrast the American ethos of unity with Nazi ideology. “Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that ‘The Nazi slogan for destroying us … was “Divide and Conquer.” Our American answer is “In Union there is Strength.”’ We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

lol Trump is f'd

https://www.hoover.org/research/jim-mattis-call-sign-chaos-learning-lead-1

General James Mattis: "Be polite, be professional, "but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

@lemon-lime said

... legitimate vote counts show Biden is president.

According to who, your Aunt Sally?

Wanting instant gratification doesn't mean you are entitled to instant gratification. If after "legitimate" vote counts show Biden has won then the process of transition can take place. It's not designed to be an instantaneous transition or continuation of power. Calling ...[text shortened]... high ground here and play by the rules; why are they willing to risk the appearance of impropriety?

Do you believe that all legitimate votes have not been counted?