@averagejoe1 said"It is a given that military, FDA, FAA, etc endeavors are 'socialist', even education, but govt produces nothing , farms it all out to Business."
It is a given that military, FDA, FAA, etc endeavors are 'socialist', even education, but govt produces nothing , farms it all out to Business. So that said, I wish I could be there when you see this to realize the big picture. You think we FOX people are brainwashed??? Have your sources ever told you THIS??https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/why-socialism-always-fails/
Yep, and so do the countries I mentioned and also what Sanders and AOC and others advocate. It's just that they do it better and with less corruption than the US.
Nobody worth listening to is actually advocating for the government to start making shoelaces and hats.
"You think we FOX people are brainwashed???"
Ha! Obviously. Listening to one source of information and unwilling to accept anything else, to a religious degree? Yeah, that's pretty much brainwashing.
"Have your sources ever told you THIS??https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/why-socialism-always-fails/"
Yep. It equates socialism with communism because they rely on your ignorance. Nobody talks about communism when they ask that maybe the government should look after the interests of the 99% instead of the uber wealthy.
Fine, you dislike the concept so much? Not socialism. Do what Norway does. Do it better. Do it slightly worse. Just do something.
@averagejoe1 said"Hey ...Sweden.... (God y'all like to list country after country in your posts, who cares. Have you checked on Bosnia lately?).....is socialist. "
You bore us with this rambling, remember we all go to the same library, look what I just found in the stacks. And the word Socialism (parasitical bunch of shytes) does not appear in this treatise.
Further, I sayeth not. Jesus. https://act.represent.us/sign/democracy-republic/
Hey ...Sweden.... (God y'all like to list country after country in your posts, who ...[text shortened]... . Actually, I think the USA flies overhead to keep them safe, with their kites and cotton candy). 😉
So fukin don't do what Bosnia (a country still suffering from a war you inflicted upon it) does. Do what Sweeden does.
" USA is capitalist. "
Was it capitalism bailing out the banks responsible for the economic collaps in 2008? Was it capitalism lowering the taxes of the uber wealthy? Was it capitalism giving them bailout money during Covid to help them stay afloat while the people received one time checks of what was it, 600$? I thought that a business that cannot stay solvent on its own deserves to fail.
So no, the US is not capitalism.
"Me picks up a little jealousy in many of your posts. "
Ha!
"I am not too versed on socialism"
We can tell.
"but many smart people say that Socialism has never worked in any country"
Yep. Being smart doesn't mean you are also saying the truth. You could be smart to identify what lies need to be told to ignoramuses like you to better control you.
"I dont know."
Obviously.
"(Sweden, which only has a few citizens, can hardly be considered a country in the scheme of things,"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I notice that Sweden, nor Bosilna for that matter, are never mentioned in Global news. Boring. What do y'all do? Did you invent anything last week? Got a stock market? Excite us, Zahlanzi. hahaha
Hey, I had my associate google USA is Not Capitalistic and he came up with nothing, so we must be Capitalist. Maybe you could send us a link on your findings. Any way, his research NEGATES just about all, or maybe all, of your comments above.. Negates. Funny you say that Bernie and AOC do something 'better'. Just what is that, may I ask? hahahah
I am being cordial to the liberals here when I say 'FOX' , so that we are all on a the same page, it is understandable that you pigeonhole us that way. I actually get my news from Breitbart,,,,a USA invention, by the way. Do yall invent anything?
Do what Norway does? Google that one..... 'Why can't USA of 330,000.000 people copy the Norway or Sweden or Finland system?" You will be enlightened and say,,,,,,"Joe is right, can't be done". Why do you people keep thinking we can be like a country of 5M blond people? Google it. Cant happen. Whew.
Zahlanzi, you seem to be confused about what Socialism is, you are not alone, I have admitted above that I too find the definition a bit elusive. Let me help you here..........
1) Part of the confusion comes from a tendency in the left (you) to view socialism as an abstract theoretical issue.
2) Some seek a universal set of principles that define socialism, a checklist which determines if a country is 'really' socialist .
3) Others say Socialism is simply public ownership of the means of production, and that other criteria are irrelevant.
So, Zahlanzi, give it a rest, as even you don't know what the hell it is. How can you chide me about it? I admitted I'm not sure....why don't you? All of your stuff is basically unfounded, just hanging loose out there.
I think that covers it, your posts go nowhere. Now, what do you think about the issue of this thread, do you think it sucks that Sue is being cut out of some benefit available to her friends, while she goes home to a childless life?
Breaks my heart. Well, I am off to Augusta to see the Masters,....man, that place is LOADED with capitalists! Including me!
😛
@averagejoe1 saiddon't drive drunk
I notice that Sweden, nor Bosilna for that matter, are never mentioned in Global news. Boring. What do y'all do? Did you invent anything last week? Got a stock market? Excite us, Zahlanzi. hahaha
Hey, I had my associate google USA is Not Capitalistic and he came up with nothing, so we must be Capitalist. Maybe you could send us a link on your findings. Any way, ...[text shortened]... to Augusta to see the Masters,....man, that place is LOADED with capitalists! Including me!
😛
@AverageJoe1
do you think it sucks that Sue is being cut out of some benefit available to her friends, while she goes home to a childless life?
No. Neither does it suck that people who have jobs and homes are cut out of certain benefits which the unemployed and the homeless have. Neither does it suck that rich kids whose parents can afford college educations are cut out of student loans which poorer families would qualify for. Neither does it suck that rich people on huge private pensions are cut out of medical aid which poor elderly people have. Neither does it suck that some people in general qualify for some benefits that others don't qualify for. Why? because everyone receiving the same benefits is stupid. Benefits are tied to assessable need; that's just common sense.
@averagejoe1 saidIt's not really *free* healthcare, Joe.
So what is your take on my point about the lady Sue who makes good decisions, and her co-worker who rakes in free child care? Downer, dont you think?
A lot of folks have the entire cost of their medical plan covered by their employer, not a problem
But here, they made the mistake of using the phraseology "We want free
healthcare" like a bunch of gimmee girls, and this greatly upsets you
All humans - employer or employee should have the right to free negotiations. Remember, Joe,
the state does not have to cave in to them like they are the proverbial bunch of gimmee girls.
@moonbus saidEach of your sentences/scenarios above would call for separate discussion, would they not. Sue and Ann have a different situation than the homeless man. There are programs for him. Their stuff is quite 'elective', wouldn't you say. "Let me see, can I afford a child?" "Let me see, should I teach school if I have a a child at home, or should I get a job working at home since that is where the child will be?"
@AverageJoe1
do you think it sucks that Sue is being cut out of some benefit available to her friends, while she goes home to a childless life?
No. Neither does it suck that people who have jobs and homes are cut out of certain benefits which the unemployed and the homeless have. Neither does it suck that rich kids whose parents can afford college educations are ...[text shortened]... the same benefits is stupid. Benefits are tied to assessable need; that's just common sense.
These are choices, the concepts of which totally escape libs, who find themselves in a pickle and call the government. All the posters here certainly have govt on speed-dial. They don't make choices, and get after people like me, in Marxist fashion, to fix their 'unfortunate' mistakes.
This begs the question, Moonbus. If I suffer some loss, I won't bore you with an example, what is the 'bar' whereupon the govt says....Naaa, we are not going to cover you. Certainly not money I lost on the horses, but what if my car won't run and I need it to get to my job? Ann, in my example, needs the child care to do HER job. What in the HELL is the difference? Why will the govt (school board?) cover her but not cover me and pay for my car repair?
And, how do I know you will not answer this question?
Do so please, and then we will tackle your student loans, pensions, etc. And please don't go Marx on us, I detect a bit of him in your post.
@shavixmir saidThe problem? Shav is saying the USA should stop spending money on weapons. Im just the messenger.
Stop spending a trillion on weapons and give them healthcare.
What’s the problem?
@earl-of-trumps saidyeah, that's the way to do it. Have the employer literally have power of life or death over the employee.
It's not really *free* healthcare, Joe.
A lot of folks have the entire cost of their medical plan covered by their employer, not a problem
But here, they made the mistake of using the phraseology "We want free
healthcare" like a bunch of gimmee girls, and this greatly upsets you
All humans - employer or employee should have the right to free negotiations. Re ...[text shortened]... oe,
the state does not have to cave in to them like they are the proverbial bunch of gimmee girls.
"All humans - employer or employee should have the right to free negotiations. "
Tell me, for the thousandth time, how free the negotiation is if one party holds the power to deny life saving healthcare over the other. I forget.
@Zahlanzi -
Tell me, for the thousandth time, how free the negotiation is if one party holds the power to deny life saving healthcare over the other. I forget.
---------------
This is one of the most stupid concepts I've ever seen expressed in this RHP forum.
Did it ever occur to you that I can deny giving everyone at RHP live saving health care. It's true. So everyone moves on.
What the heck is the big deal.
Stupid #2: In case you missed it, I am arguing FOR the teachers. Doh. Not too swift, Z.
@earl-of-trumps said"Did it ever occur to you that I can deny giving everyone at RHP live saving health care. It's true. So everyone moves on."
@Zahlanzi -
Tell me, for the thousandth time, how free the negotiation is if one party holds the power to deny life saving healthcare over the other. I forget.
---------------
This is one of the most stupid concepts I've ever seen expressed in this RHP forum.
Did it ever occur to you that I can deny giving everyone at RHP live saving health care. It's t ...[text shortened]... big deal.
Stupid #2: In case you missed it, I am arguing FOR the teachers. Doh. Not too swift, Z.
as they should. Since nobody at RHP pays taxes to the united states of earl, it would be pretty weird to get pissed you aren't giving them healthcare but you are giving tax cuts to the rich and multibillion dollar contracts to weapon manufacturers to build another worthless jet. Try again, maybe you can manage a less crappy analogy next time.
"What the heck is the big deal."
People are dying or going bankrupt in the supposedly richest country in the world. No big deal, huh?
"Stupid #2: In case you missed it, I am arguing FOR the teachers. Doh. Not too swift, Z."
You aren't. You are phrasing healthcare as "a negotiation between employer and employee" (which i just told you it's not a negotiation since the employer has all the power and they get the corrupt politicians to keep increasing that negotiating power) or you whine about taxes going to help "other children" (which is racist) but you never make a fuss about the billions pouring into the grotesque US military or the tax cuts for the rich which makes you a hypocrite. You aren't an ally. You're a part of the problem.
@averagejoe1 saidYes, of course, each issue is decided separately, but not between Sue and Ann, or Bob and Bill -- you're still looking at this from a microscopic individual's perspective, as if it involved only two people without a society in the background. It's a public policy issue.
Each of your sentences/scenarios above would call for separate discussion, would they not. Sue and Ann have a different situation than the homeless man. There are programs for him. Their stuff is quite 'elective', wouldn't you say. "Let me see, can I afford a child?" "Let me see, should I teach school if I have a a child at home, or should I get a job working at home ...[text shortened]... r student loans, pensions, etc. And please don't go Marx on us, I detect a bit of him in your post.
Why are some risks and losses covered by govt largess and not others? Simple: elected government representatives listen to their constituents and make public policy based on whether they think they can get re-elected if they do what their constituents want. Of course, there is a lot of balancing of interest groups and lobbyists, hard negotiating between rival parties, and fiscal limits to take into account. That's how democracy works.
The Marxist 'solution' is for technocrats to make centrally planned decisions and autocratically force them on the public, whether the programmes can be paid for or not, with minimal feedback whether the programmes are actually fit for purpose. We need not discuss this option further, as no one wants that, not even Bernie Sanders.
@moonbus said"Look at it as a public policy issue.....Do not look at it from an individual's perspective."
Yes, of course, each issue is decided separately, but not between Sue and Ann, or Bob and Bill -- you're still looking at this from a microscopic individual's perspective, as if it involved only two people without a society in the background. It's a public policy issue.
Why are some risks and losses covered by govt largess and not others? Simple: elected government represe ...[text shortened]... for purpose. We need not discuss this option further, as no one wants that, not even Bernie Sanders.
And you are not a Marxist? So, where do you cut off independence and individuality, and roll on over to 'the group',.... we all fall in line with the group.
AvJoe says look at it from an individual's perspective. Guess I am wrong. So, where do I go to join the group? I'm ready to throw in the towel, and get in line, under the thumb.
I'm probably a bit tired of being self-reliant, anyway. I would rather you and the group take care of me
Not to make Ann appear greedy, but is there some other stuff that your group can give to her for free? Since this is all in the USA family, can she bring her nephew over to put in the child care group? Does the chlld care feed her children, too?
Imagine Ann not having to pay for child care, when other people all over the country, pay for child care.
@earl-of-trumps saidIllegal aliens are not eligible for free health care in the U.S. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9587751367
I have no problem, Joe, with working people making demands for their employment.,
They are looking after themselves and their own and that is to be lauded. My opinion.
What has to be disheartening is to be a worker - in this case, a teacher, and KNOW that the taxes
they take out of your paycheck go to pay for the medical insurance for the children of deadbeat illegal aliens
I mean, WTF, aren't working people entitled to equal rights?? I guess not.