the system needs incentive

@very-rusty said
Shortcircuit,
If you had threatened to remove a certain someone from the clan. I would probably still be there. He obviously was a better friend to you than myself, and can do more for the Clan!!! Best to step down as you knew it would come to a head and you didn't want to deal with it. Best to have someone else deal with it, good move!

VR

I wish I had seen this sooner. You have an elevated opinion of yourself and your worth.

You seem to have this friendship stigma that dictates which friend is better?
Are you mad? I told both of you to cut the crap, in no uncertain terms.
NEITHER of you did as I requested. You two elevated the BS until YOU came to me
with an ultimatum. When I refused to let the tail wag the dog, YOU got pissed and left. Then you start all of this BS about who I liked better. You have no idea what you are talking about, as it is all contrived in your head. I even told you that we did not want you to leave, but I still wanted the crap finished. YOU left, I didn't force you out. You say what you want, but those are the true facts, and you know it. Contrary to what you may feel, I feel strongly about every member of the clan. I have never played favorites. I challenge you to find someone to say otherwise. YOU were the one who elevated your value to the clan in your mind, and you wanted your way, or YOU were going to walk. You were a valued member of the clan for many years. We fought side by side for years together. But that never gave you the right to demand the dismissal of anyone else in the clan. Had he made the same demand, I would not have released you either. You were both wrong. You quit. He stayed. It is that simple. Never forget the basic principal we have followed ever since I came into the clan. "No one player is EVER bigger than the team. There is no "I" in the word "TEAM". You seem to have forgotten that. You did what you felt you had to. You were a grown man. YOu had your mind made up.

Just curious, If you went to Vespin and demanded someone from your clan be kicked out, would he do it? He can defend you forever, but you didn't try that BS with him. Up until now I have taken the high road and said nothing, but you continued grinding your axe. Enough is enough. As I said before, you do not have any dirt on this clan. You know we played it clean. You were there, you saw it. You left the clan, I didn't kick you from it. And, I did not step down from the clan leadership because I didn't didn't want to deal with this stuff. There were several reasons, NONE of which involved the inter-workings of the clan. Hopefully this will end all of this non-sense and we can move on.

@vespin said
I wish there was more support for this. Mghrn55 seems to be someone players and admin listens to. I don't know what his feeling on this is but if he is behind this we should all as leaders and players see how Russ feels about it. Maybe Mghrn55 might want to spearhead this if he feels the same way and if enough players get behind it.

But I would love to see that. Using s ...[text shortened]... nymore. @beowulf your idea is a great one in my humble opinion. I hope they do something about it.

I support this. And I always have.
My questions revolve around whether Russ will move forward with this.
I think this is a considerable bit of work involved.
And his last major endeavor in 2017 (rating the clans instead of the players) kind of flopped.
He'll be more cautious.
And I'm pretty sure he's got enough on his plate.

@very-rusty said
Shortcircuit,
If you had threatened to remove a certain someone from the clan. I would probably still be there. He obviously was a better friend to you than myself, and can do more for the Clan!!! Best to step down as you knew it would come to a head and you didn't want to deal with it. Best to have someone else deal with it, good move!

VR

Very Rusty......

YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE !!
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE !!
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE !!

You don't get to dictate to a clan leader who stays in a clan and who doesn't !
You just don't !!
We indulged your childish behavior and we tried to arrive at something that worked for everybody.
But I did NOT boot someone in our clan because you were unhappy.
And we (the clan) wanted you to stay.
You made your choice. And you made it a long time ago !!
Why is this coming up now ??

I'll tell you right now. I didn't boot you. But if I had, I wouldn't be losing sleep over this right now.
Anybody in their right mind would conclude that your behavior is unacceptable in terms of keeping a good team spirit going.
I won't begin to speculate what Vespin might do if you pulled this sh&t on him.
I don't know him well enough.

But you know where I stand !!

Jesus F'ing Christ !!
Some of us are trying to promote this feature.
We will probably have our differences with Vespin as this year goes on. It's competitive this year.
But I will say this, he works hard and he supports the clan feature with his efforts !!
I don't think he wants to be a baby sitter !!

STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW !!
You're only hurting yourself.

@mghrn55 said
Very Rusty......

YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE !!
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE !!
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE !!

You don't get to dictate to a clan leader who stays in a clan and who doesn't !
You just don't !!
We indulged your childish behavior and we tried to arrive at something that worked for everybody.
But I did NOT boot someone in our clan because yo ...[text shortened]... 't think he wants to be a baby sitter !!

STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW !!
You're only hurting yourself.

Calm yourself down, you get so excited! 🙂

-VR

@very-rusty said
Shortcircuit,
If you had threatened to remove a certain someone from the clan. I would probably still be there. He obviously was a better friend to you than myself, and can do more for the Clan!!! Best to step down as you knew it would come to a head and you didn't want to deal with it. Best to have someone else deal with it, good move!

VR

Bloody hell you are still whining on about this!

@divegeester said
Bloody hell you are still whining on about this!

By the way how you doing with winning games for Metallica? 🙂

You stick your nose in after all has been said!

-VR

@shortcircuit said
I wish I had seen this sooner. You have an elevated opinion of yourself and your worth.

You seem to have this friendship stigma that dictates which friend is better?
Are you mad? I told both of you to cut the crap, in no uncertain terms.
NEITHER of you did as I requested. You two elevated the BS until YOU came to me
with an ultimatum. When I refused to let the tail ...[text shortened]... ed the inter-workings of the clan. Hopefully this will end all of this non-sense and we can move on.

I just noticed something I had to respond to.

It wasn't you I gave the ultimatum to it was the present leader although everyone knows you run things from the back scenes. 🙂

My Present Clan is happy with my wins, which is all that really matters now.

You were not Clan Leader when the Ultimatum was given the new Clan leader was. Just wanted to straighten that out! We may have even talked about it, but I didn't give you the Ultimatum, I don't know where your mind drifted.

-VR

@Very-Rusty
You are correct that I was not the clan leader at the time.
You issued an ultimatum to him.
You also came to me citing your case.
I said you were wrong.
You said it was apparent that I was better friends with your counterpart because I
didn't support you.
I said then, as I say now, you were a part of a team, as was he. No part is greater than the sum.
You threw a fit and bolted from the clan, even after the clan leader and I BOTH told
you we wanted you to stay, but not on your terms.
You quit, you weren't booted.

You seem to have this conception that I run the clan in the background.
The clan leader runs the clan. He is the only one who can operate the controls.
The fact that I have a fair amount of seniority and experience in the running of the clan,
on occasion my counsel is sought. On others, I make a voluntary contribution.
Do you think this is out of the norm?? I sure don't.
You seem to believe there is some sinister plot in play.
If that helps you sleep better at night, so be it.

Now, exactly how does any of this change the fact that you quit, you weren't fired?

@very-rusty said
I just noticed something I had to respond to.

It wasn't you I gave the ultimatum to it was the present leader although everyone knows you run things from the back scenes. 🙂

My Present Clan is happy with my wins, which is all that really matters now.

You were not Clan Leader when the Ultimatum was given the new Clan leader was. Just wanted to straighten that out! ...[text shortened]... n talked about it, but I didn't give you the Ultimatum, I don't know where your mind drifted.

-VR

More nonsense spewing from you.

@mghrn55 said
More nonsense spewing from you.

You wouldn't be happy with out your 2 cents worth mghrn55. 😛

-VR

@shortcircuit said
@Very-Rusty
You are correct that I was not the clan leader at the time.
You issued an ultimatum to him.
You also came to me citing your case.
I said you were wrong.
You said it was apparent that I was better friends with your counterpart because I
didn't support you.
I said then, as I say now, you were a part of a team, as was he. No part is greater than the sum. ...[text shortened]... ht, so be it.

Now, exactly how does any of this change the fact that you quit, you weren't fired?

What did I miss? Where did I say I was fired? Of course I left of my own accord.

-VR

@mghrn55 said
I support this. And I always have.
My questions revolve around whether Russ will move forward with this.
I think this is a considerable bit of work involved.
And his last major endeavor in 2017 (rating the clans instead of the players) kind of flopped.
He'll be more cautious.
And I'm pretty sure he's got enough on his plate.

I agree running this site has to be brutal. Time consuming. But it would really help the clan system. Maybe if brought to him in a intellectual way of all the good points about it, maybe he might take a closer look now. I would be better than what we have now that is for sure. I'm glad you are behind it. We need more leaders and players.

@vespin said
I agree running this site has to be brutal. Time consuming. But it would really help the clan system. Maybe if brought to him in a intellectual way of all the good points about it, maybe he might take a closer look now. I would be better than what we have now that is for sure. I'm glad you are behind it. We need more leaders and players.

Agreed, the bickering doesn't get us anywhere for sure.

-VR

@vespin said
I agree running this site has to be brutal. Time consuming. But it would really help the clan system. Maybe if brought to him in a intellectual way of all the good points about it, maybe he might take a closer look now. I would be better than what we have now that is for sure. I'm glad you are behind it. We need more leaders and players.

The way the system is right now just requires the clan leaders to pay more attention.
Sports works the same way. Team coaches have to work with what they have.
If everything was automated, coaches could just sit behind the bench and sleep through the whole game.

I'd like to see changes that improve the clan feature and attract more players.
We don't need to make changes to babysit the clan leaders who don't do their homework.

This change is a lot of work because you have to make changes to the database (adding a new value)
You have to make changes elsewhere. For example you have to exclude clan games from the tournament ratings.
Then you have startup issues. What rating should every player start at.
If you set the new rating to be equal to the existing rating, then there will be a flood of players driving down their rating before the rollout.
And I am just starting.
Russ will think of more things than we will.

But yes, a separate clan game rating would be nice.
But getting there ?
And will this change drive up subscriptions ?
That is the kind of stuff Russ has to think about.

@mghrn55
The present system separates the eagles from the turkeys.
Maybe that is just the way it is supposed to be.