@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidAgree this is working as designed and no rules have been broken. Through all the changes over the years, Metallica has still managed to stay on top. That isn't luck. Through every change made, they've adapted. That should not get lost in this discussion.
As I acknowledged in a previous post, clan leaders who are prolific in their challenges are not doing anything wrong. That is the nature of the current beast.
But it's in all our interest to make the clans more competitive, to slay that particular beast.
A reasonable cap on challenges would be one way to do that.
"It's in all our interest to make the clans more competitive." As everyone knows, I agree with this. However, I don't think we can treat it as settled. Plenty of people are here to play chess and genuinely don't care where their clan sits in the table.
And even if it is in all our interest, we can't jump straight into new limits being the answer. It's a candidate move - although again, obviously I agree. I think a clan competition, maybe a league or a Cup, where every clan plays the same amount of games would be a good thing.
I think you mean a cap on games, not challenges. Games are really the issue. It would be great if we can call some number of games a season - 1800, for instance.
It's great that we're having this discussion. The fact that we have Russ and shortcircuit in this thread brings me great hope.
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@Bish said@Bish,
Agree this is working as designed and no rules have been broken. Through all the changes over the years, Metallica has still managed to stay on top. That isn't luck. Through every change made, they've adapted. That should not get lost in this discussion.
"It's in all our interest to make the clans more competitive." As everyone knows, I agree with this. However, I don't think ...[text shortened]... ng this discussion. The fact that we have Russ and shortcircuit in this thread brings me great hope.
I believe it should be challenges & Games both because you can have a challenge with only 2 people in it, or you could use games but someone could win more games and someone else more challenges, we have to try make everyone happy.
We only been working at this now for 20 years with 5 different changes made in the way it was done. It is to find out the fairest way to do it of course, which I think everyone is on the same page.
I believe the issue is to find that number that everyone will be happy with. Everyone play an equal amount of games and challenges, is that even possible?
IF everyone isn't playing everyone else, how can you call who ever wins it Champions?
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidIf the cap is achievable (say 2000 games/challenges) then it doesn't really matter if some clans don't want to play certain clans. (The top 2 clans have already demonstrated that such a cap is reachable, despite some clans not wanting to play them).
@Bish,
I believe it should be challenges & Games both because you can have a challenge with only 2 people in it, or you could use games but someone could win more games and someone else more challenges, we have to try make everyone happy.
We only been working at this now for 20 years with 5 different changes made in the way it was done. It is to find out the fairest ...[text shortened]... le?
IF everyone isn't playing everyone else, how can you call who ever wins it Champions?
-VR
And no, unless in a league format, it is not possible for all clans to play an equal amount of games. (As Bish indicated, not all clans would even want that).
Currently, the top 2 clans do an impressive job, but it has you, for example, carrying a game load of over 500 games. - The vast majority of people don't want to play anywhere near that and so without a yearly cap, we will go on with the clan competition being a 2 horse race with all other clans being a commodity to fuel them.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke said@Ghost,
If the cap is achievable (say 2000 games/challenges) then it doesn't really matter if some clans don't want to play certain clans. (The top 2 clans have already demonstrated that such a cap is reachable, despite some clans not wanting to play them).
And no, unless in a league format, it is not possible for all clans to play an equal amount of games. (As Bish indica ...[text shortened]... with the clan competition being a 2 horse race with all other clans being a commodity to fuel them.
Actually 500 games is a lot for me too, I was in some long time bank tournaments that took forever to close and I actually forgot about them.
I am only in 27 Clan Challenge Games and 2 of those were added recently.
I think everyone would be in agreement if everyone played the same amount of games, again I say if all Clans aren't included the winner can not actually call them selves that. More like paper champions in my opinion, even if it is us.
I remember a time when pretty much everyone played everyone else in Clan tournaments and there were many more Clans involved. I believe those days are gone forever.
Our Clan Leader in Metallica has spoken and speaks for the whole Clan. I only speak for myself. This would be the 6th change in my time here, if it comes to be that is.
Leagues didn't seem to work that well, in my opinion.
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidSome clans have chosen not to play you for a reason. Do you accept that?
@Ghost,
Actually 500 games is a lot for me too, I was in some long time bank tournaments that took forever to close and I actually forgot about them.
I am only in 27 Clan Challenge Games and 2 of those were added recently.
I think everyone would be in agreement if everyone played the same amount of games, again I say if all Clans aren't included the winner can n ...[text shortened]... ime here, if it comes to be that is.
Leagues didn't seem to work that well, in my opinion.
-VR
I respect their decision.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke said@Ghost,
Some clans have chosen not to play you for a reason. Do you accept that?
I respect their decision.
That would be something you would have to ask my Clan Leader, as I don't make the challenges here in Metallica or give any advice on them.
I do believe however that a rating for Just Clan Challenges separate from the others would help with the issues Trev was talking about, he is spot on in my opinion.
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidClan leaders have spoken publicly about lobsided and unfair challenges. I can't think of many other reasons why a clan would refuse to play you.
@Ghost,
That would be something you would have to ask my Clan Leader, as I don't make the challenges here in Metallica or give any advice on them.
-VR
As far as I know, no clan has declined to play us in challenges.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke said@Ghost,
Clan leaders have spoken publicly about lobsided and unfair challenges. I can't think of many other reasons why a clan would refuse to play you.
As far as I know, no clan has declined to play us in challenges.
Once again what I believe is the Clan Challenge Ratings should be separate from the others. I have said this and tried to promote it for years.
Eventually everyone would be playing at their true playing strength.
I don't know who accepts or declines your challenges, I am just concerned about our Clan. Your Clan Leader would know more about that than you or I, unless of course he goes over the challenges with you before sending them.
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidThat doesn't really address my question.
@Ghost,
Once again what I believe is the Clan Challenge Ratings should be separate from the others. I have said this and tried to promote it for years.
Eventually everyone would be playing at their true playing strength.
I don't know whow accepts or declines your challenges, I am just concerned about our Clan. Your Clan Leader would know more about that than you or I, unless of course he goes over the challenges with you before sending them.
-VR
Again, if clans refuse to play you they must have their reasons. (Which I fully respect).
I suspect for many the intensity of challenges is seen mostly for your benefit, not theirs. (Especially if the challenges are perceived as lobsided or the ratings of players deflated).
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke said@Ghost,
That doesn't really address my question.
Again, if clans refuse to play you they must have their reasons. (Which I fully respect).
I suspect for many the intensity of challenges is seen mostly for your benefit, not theirs. (Especially if the challenges are perceived as lobsided or the ratings of players deflated).
I am a co-captain on another site, this happens all the time where Captains/ co-captains can't agree on a match up.
What the reasons are only the two Clan Leaders would know, as I don't know the reason why, how do you expect an answer, want me to make guess which may or may not be correct???
Again a separate Clan Challenge rating would solve the problem of what you say are lop sided challenges.
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidI'll give you a couple of scenarios:
@Ghost,
I am a co-captain on another site, this happens all the time where Captains/ co-captains can't agree on a match up.
What the reasons are only the two Clan Leaders would know, as I don't know the reason why, how do you expect an answer, want me to make guess which may or may not be correct???
Again a separate Clan Challenge rating would solve the problem of what you say are lop sided challenges.
-VR
1. Two clans play each other, from time to time. There is no rush to complete the challenges which are fairly well matched and where all games, out of respect for each other, are always played to conclusion. (Never ended early to hurry the end of the challenge). Top priority is enjoyment of chess with a healthy desire to win the challenge.
2. Two clans play each other, one of the two always in a rush to complete the challenge and start another. Pairing often feel lobsided and games readily abandoned in challenges that are perceived as pointless to continue in. One of the clans begins to feel they are just there to serve the other. (Like on a conveyor belt).
Do you feel this might be the reason some clans stop playing you? (It is not necessary for you to be a clan leader to answer this).
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke said@Ghost,
Clan leaders have spoken publicly about lobsided and unfair challenges. I can't think of many other reasons why a clan would refuse to play you.
As far as I know, no clan has declined to play us in challenges.
You are saying Clan Leaders Refuse to play me, which is very false statement to make.
I at anytime have between 20-30 Clan challenge games on the go. On a Clan as good as the one I am on that is a lot for one player, although you may not know this because you are not experienced in Clans as I am playing in them for 20 years.
So lets cut the crap on Clans not playing me personally! I actually know many of the Clan leaders from speaking to them on this Site, and am on a first name basis with many of them.
-VR