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01 Jul 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you are referring to my post, read it again but this time without the red mist in your eyes and you will see I made no such claim.
yes apparently it was because two of their players play for Chelsea that they did it, I
think not, its just like the English to make some stupid and baseless claim to try to
bolster their pathetic egos.
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01 Jul 12
Originally posted by scacchipazzoWell said.
Italy have nothing to hang their heads about! Simply put Spain were too much of a handful. Spain will certainly be a force in need of being confronted with care once they get David Villa back which will only make them stronger! Spain won it fair and square and deserve the admiration of the world!
Italy had a good run though and they are definitely an improving side.
01 Jul 12
Han vinto i più forti. Ma i nostri ragazzi ci hanno fatto vivere comunque delle grandi emozioni, vanno sostenuti e applauditi. Bravi azzurri, e grazie 🙂
The strongest won. However, our boys gave us great moments and exciting games. We applaud their great cup and we support them always. Bravo, Azzurri and thanks!
01 Jul 12
Originally posted by divegeesterIt was a really exciting cup and I enjoyed every minute of it! Many teams have great futures ahead of them and should only improve, one of them being Italy. Great as Pirlo is he looked old and slow and Italy certainly has work to do. Spain should be fearsome in Brazil in two years! They made a case for being considered of of the all time greats!
Well said.
Italy had a good run though and they are definitely an improving side.
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02 Jul 12
1 edit
The post that was quoted here has been removedPot, stop calling the kettle black.
This whole discussion started off with robbie asking about films being made celebrating English acts of bravery similar to the (fictionalised!) Scots acts of bravery in Braveheart. I mentioned Drake, and some politically correct, sourfaced dingbat had to butt in with the complaint that Drake is not a hero because he did things wrong as well as right, and therefore should not have a film made about him.
Well, please note that 1. Nobody ever did claim he was perfect; 2. Scots heroes like Wallace were hardly nice people, either; 3. The question was not whether such films should be made, but whether they had. These sociopolitical intrusions were both irrelevant and detrimental to the discussion.
Popular close-minded ignorance is the nemesis of scholarly historians.
Substitute "hallmark" for "nemesis", and you are closer to the truth.
Richard
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02 Jul 12
Originally posted by scacchipazzoI don't think there's anything arguable about it. They are the best team on Earth. What's arguable is whether they're the best team ever, and I'd tentatively (not having myself seen Puskas' Hungary, for example) argue for it.
Unquestionably Spain taught Italy a footballing lesson. Congrats to Spain, arguably the best team on earth!
Richard
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02 Jul 12
Originally posted by divegeesterPoint of order: it's not the boys that are boring, it's the team. For that, you must blame the club mentality and the coach. In the Spanish team, under Del Bosque, they play a different system than in Chelsea under Ancelotti and Mourinho. The difference in style is readily visible, and makes it clear that it's not the players who are most at fault: in their club, they're just not allowed to shine as they are for their country.
So the boring (according to robbie carrobie) Chelsea boys
The same thing might be said, by the way, for players like Rafa van der Vaart and Ibrahim Afellay - but in the opposite direction.
Richard
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02 Jul 12
Originally posted by divegeesterYes; this was a trouncing, quite unlike the Germany game. Italy had hardly any answer at all to the Spanish attacks, not even their old favourite catenaccio. Surprising - they looked much worse in this game than in any of their previous ones, right back to the opening match. Nevertheless, I hope they continue on this path - and that the Dutch team take their lessons!
So the boring (according to robbie carrobie) Chelsea boys not only tear into the Italians for goals 3 and 4 but also the brilliantly rising and unselfish Torres denies himself a clear Golden Boot to set up his club and country colleague Mata. Class pure class. Not boring at all really.
Richard
02 Jul 12
Originally posted by Shallow BlueI agree with this.
Yes; this was a trouncing, quite unlike the Germany game. Italy had hardly any answer at all to the Spanish attacks, not even their old favourite catenaccio. Surprising - they looked much worse in this game than in any of their previous ones, right back to the opening match.
02 Jul 12
Originally posted by Shallow BlueNo one would have beaten Spain last night. No one. That said, Italy played a decent first half and despite this had nothing to show for their efforts. Spain was really tight on defense and allowed only the long distance shot Casillas handles deftly in spite of the two shots on target. I agree that the argument about Spain being the best team ever is silly. It is not better than Brazil or Germany or Italy 1970 and Italy was WC#2 that year and Germany #3, or France 1998. I've watched Puskas' Hungary on film. Not better than Brazil 1958, Pele's first year (also watched on film). Spain is incredibly good and watching them play is like watching a well oiled machine run. One can admire them, but after a while it is not as interesting as Pele's 1970 Brazil.
I don't think there's anything arguable about it. They are the best team on Earth. What's arguable is whether they're the best team ever, and I'd tentatively (not having myself seen Puskas' Hungary, for example) argue for it.
Richard
Originally posted by scacchipazzoI watched the 1970 world cup live on tv and Spain are the best team ever !
No one would have beaten Spain last night. No one. That said, Italy played a decent first half and despite this had nothing to show for their efforts. Spain was really tight on defense and allowed only the long distance shot Casillas handles deftly in spite of the two shots on target. I agree that the argument about Spain being the best team ever is sil ...[text shortened]... run. One can admire them, but after a while it is not as interesting as Pele's 1970 Brazil.
Holland were allso a fantastic side in the 70's but i haven't seen a team in watching football for 40 yrs that would beat present day Spain .
06 Jul 12
Originally posted by Shallow BlueApparently Duchess64 as well as being a Hypocrite concerning the exchange of personal abuse on this site
Pot, stop calling the kettle black.
This whole discussion started off with robbie asking about films being made celebrating English acts of bravery similar to the (fictionalised!) Scots acts of bravery in Braveheart. I mentioned Drake, and some politically correct, sourfaced dingbat had to butt in with the complaint that Drake is not a hero because h ...[text shortened]... s.[/quote]
Substitute "hallmark" for "nemesis", and you are closer to the truth.
Richard
"Popular close-minded ignorance is the nemesis of scholarly historians."
"Kevcvs57 warrants no further response beyond disdain.
It has been evident to me for some time that Kevcvs57 has no interest in
learning anything new. His knowledge of history seems to be comparable
with his poor comprehension of chess."
But also seems to be of the opinion that there is no moral difference between remaining neutral in an essentially dynastic conflict such as WWI and remaining neutral in the face of a Nazi regime which threatened the genocide and literal enslavement of entire race's of people.
If this is not enough to call into question the over reliance on the retrospective number crunching of historical revisionists then I cannot imagine what is.