14 May 13
2 edits
Originally posted by PhrannyI think we have both, in the main, managed to avoid the name calling to which these threads are susceptible. I have certainly not noticed any heavy ad-hominims from Robbie and I don't think he has complained of any from me.
The problem with this discussion is that it is deteriorating into name calling on both sides. Just accept that others do not adhere to your beliefs, whether the belief be in atheism or Christianity.
If we both just accepted our disagreement then we not have the fun of the discussion, and we would not have the opportunity to examine our own beliefs in the course of defending them. I think as long as the discussion does not descend into name-calling we will both benefit from the mutual cross-examination.
--- Penguin
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAnd I maintain that it is not that easy because atheism, being simply a lack of theism, can have no influence on my behaviour. It can only be used to describe some of the things I do not do, such as praying to Mecca or making burnt offerings. these are also things which you do not do.
yes i know, its just not that easy.
It is a subtle distinction but an important one in the context of the OP since it helps to inform the argument that atheism itself has no lessons or values. It is what you are that truly defines you, not what you are not.
--- Penguin
16 May 13
Originally posted by PenguinCan I take it that your silence is an acceptance that my point about atheism having no influence on behaviour is valid? And that any influence on behaviour is more likely to be through other causes than atheism,which is simply a lack of something?
And I maintain that it is not that easy because atheism, being simply a lack of theism, can have no influence on my behaviour. It can only be used to describe some of the things I do not do, such as praying to Mecca or making burnt offerings. these are also things which you do not do.
It is a subtle distinction but an important one in the co ...[text shortened]... s. It is what you are that truly defines you, not what you are not.
--- Penguin
--- Penguin
16 May 13
Originally posted by Penguinno i have been busy with other things, ill need to think of a cunning plan although i dont rule out failure.
Can I take it that your silence is an acceptance that my point about atheism having no influence on behaviour is valid? And that any influence on behaviour is more likely to be through other causes than atheism,which is simply a lack of something?
--- Penguin
17 May 13
Originally posted by PenguinA lack of knowledge.
Can I take it that your silence is an acceptance that my point about atheism having no influence on behaviour is valid? And that any influence on behaviour is more likely to be through other causes than atheism,which is simply a lack of something?
--- Penguin
The Instructor
17 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOk, fair enough. I think we have had a good discussion so far even if we may have been talking past each other to a certain extent. It has remained civil, respectful and focused which, I think, is an achievement on this forum! I will look forward to your next tactic.
no i have been busy with other things, ill need to think of a cunning plan although i dont rule out failure.
--- Alistair.
17 May 13
Originally posted by PenguinAlistair, such a Scottish name as well, it will grieve me deeply to put you to the sword! 😛
Ok, fair enough. I think we have had a good discussion so far even if we may have been talking past each other to a certain extent. It has remained civil, respectful and focused which, I think, is an achievement on this forum! I will look forward to your next tactic.
--- Alistair.
17 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAh Damn!!!! I knew I would do that sooner or later.
Alistair, such a Scottish name as well, it will grieve me deeply to put you to the sword! 😛
I think there was some Scots somewhere about 3 generations or so back but really I'm very much a soft southerner.
--- Penguin.
21 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFailed? If you recall, we were debating whether a lack of something can be said to effect behaviour. You were suggesting that it can but so far have been unable to justify the assertion with any examples.
no i have been busy with other things, ill need to think of a cunning plan although i dont rule out failure.
--- Penguin.
21 May 13
Originally posted by Penguinok, i fail, i admit failure, its not the first time i have failed, my great materialistic hypothesis that materialism has resulted in family breakdown was also hard to prove.
Failed? If you recall, we were debating whether a lack of something can be said to effect behaviour. You were suggesting that it can but so far have been unable to justify the assertion with any examples.
--- Penguin.
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22 May 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Penguin
Can I take it that your silence is an acceptance that my point about atheism having no influence on behaviour is valid? And that any influence on behaviour is more likely to be through other causes than atheism,which is simply a lack of something?
--- Penguin
Can I take it that your silence is an acceptance that my point about atheism having no influence on behaviour is valid? And that any influence on behaviour is more likely to be through other causes than atheism,which is simply a lack of something?
I am sitting in a room looking around and also out of the window.
I notice some chairs, a sofa, a rug, etc. And outside there are a couple of trees and some rocks.
I can assure you that all these things "lack a belief in God". They by definition are all Atheists.
Wow. It is no wonder Atheism is so hard to debunk by the mere fact that so much stuff in the known universe lacks a belief in God. Surely a default position of most of the universe.
Smart move guys. Surely it has to be much more normal to be ... (trumpets) AN ATHIEST - lack of belief in God.
Okay. seriously now. Both theists and atheists return to their perspective drawing boards and try to improve their arguments, close up vulnerabilities.
We both do it. We both tend to sharpen each other over the years.
So what was the past theist argument "Whatever exists has a cause" becomes after more careful consideration "Whatever BEGINS to exist has a cause."
And the Atheist goes from "A belief that no God or gods exist" to "A lack of belief in God."
This is just fine tuning to make one's philosophical position less vulnerable (so we may think) to falsification.