War Crimes in the Bible

@sonship said
I am not claiming to be an expert on world history.
The Bible shows that the theocratic nation (the one and only ever genuine nation with a covenant relationship with God) had laws considering the vulnerability of women.

Perfect laws I do not claim they were.

Now as a New Testament Christian I am not living under the law of Moses. But some people did.

Duchess is painting a case against God which I think doesn't hold.

You have mentioned a couple of times now that the laws weren't perfect.

My struggle here is with the idea that a perfect deity would put in place imperfect laws.

@sonship said
Concerning every living person's ancient or modern or future (from any and ALL cultures) rendezvous before a perfect Moral Final Judgment -

Do you think your post doctrinal knowledge of world history is going to mean anything on that day?

Man's laws certainly err.
Even the laws given by God to Moses as applied by fallible people may not meet out a perfect justice. ...[text shortened]... deny exists.

Congratulations to anyone patient enough to read carefully to the end of this post.

Why does there have to be 'final justice'?

I'm certainly not against such a satisfying outcome, that bad people get their comeuppance. Why though should that be the way things work in reality? Why can't a universe exist where injustice isn't resolved. (Again, it would be nice if this were the case, but why does this 'have' to be the order of things? )

You remind me a little of Quentin Tarantino and why I get frustrated with so many of his films. He seems to have an almost child-like need to tie everything up at the end with no loose strings (Hostel and Kill Bill come to mind). In Hostel in particular 'every' bad person gets their comeuppance, and one baddie is conveniently in the right place to get run over, just to ensure he didn't get away with his crimes.

It simply isn't realistic.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
In fairness sir, only non-believers should be reprimanded for insulting people.

In all fairness sir, seems everyone insults. In one way or another.

The mind is the battleground. This forum is the battlefield. Words are our weapons.

For what it's worth.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Duchess64 is mistaken about what SecondSon believes.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Glad to hear it.

Perhaps before chastising the Duchess it may have been prudent to have caught up on the thread. The topic is an important one.

I am familiar enough with duchess64's line of reasoning.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

You have mentioned a couple of times now that the laws weren't perfect.

My struggle here is with the idea that a perfect deity would put in place imperfect laws.

The law of Moses touched on outward actions.
Christ came and said "But I say to you ..." to penetrate deeper to the innermost motive.

The law of Moses mainly was given to expose the shortage of the fallen man.

So Paul speaks of the inadequacy of the law to save the fallen corrupted man who needs another life. Romans, Galatians.

"For if a law had been given which was able to give life, righteousness would have indeed been of the law." (Gal. 3:21b)

The eternal purpose of God is to dispense His divine life into man to beget man as sons and daughters - partakers of the divine nature. The law of Moses could not do the job of dispensing life into its hearers.

The law was "weak" because of the flesh of the Satan corrupted man. God knew it. Man needed to SEE it.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh. (Rom. 8:3)

The law of Moses functioned a tutor or child conductor, leading God's people to grace - enjoying God Himself to be everything you need.

So then the law has become our child conductor unto Christ that we might be justified out of faith. (Gal. 3:24)

God's plan is unfolded over many centuries. He is profound.
A long period of gradual revelation is needed to unveil His plan.

The law, the writer of Hebrews says made nothing perfect. And was set aside so that men and women may learn to live by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ the Perfect person who can indwell the saved.

For there is, on the one hand, the setting aside of the preceding commandment because of its weakness and unprofitabelness (For the law perfected nothing), and, on the other hand, the bringing in thereupon of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. (Heb. 7:18,19)

By the works of the law of Moses no flesh shall be justified unto eternal life.

Because out of works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin. (Rom. 3:20)

Christ is the climax - the end of the law to everyone who believes.

There is a lot to this. Reading through Romans and Galatians helps.

The law was good and spiritual and holy. But man's infestation of the Satanic corruption renders him in deeper difficulty then can be reach by any outward commandments.

We need another Person.
We need another Perfect One to blend, mingle, be dispensed into our being. Jesus Christ rose from the dead for this too - to live in a blended unity with those for whom He died.

Many accounts in the Old Testament show that outward conformity to the legal requirements sometimes did not deal with the root corruption in sinners.

From the beginning God presented Himself to man as a life to be taken INTO himself, like a food.

And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, as well as the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (Gen. 2:9)

There is both a positive aspect to the Law given at Mt. Sinai and a negative aspect of it.

@secondson said
In all fairness sir, seems everyone insults. In one way or another.

The mind is the battleground. This forum is the battlefield. Words are our weapons.

For what it's worth.

Wise man say, 'Words are weapons when fashioned into winning arguments.'

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Why does there have to be 'final justice'?

I'm certainly not against such a satisfying outcome, that bad people get their comeuppance.

Before you gloat saying "Yea! Get those bad people!"
Consider this.

It is now where I am 3:46 PM. If God should enact justice upon all the world for the next one half hour, where do you think you and I would be at 4:16 ?

We fit right in quite well with "bad people".

Why though should that be the way things work in reality? Why can't a universe exist where injustice isn't resolved.

I ask that sometimes. Revelation 21 and 22 present a universe in which righteousness reigns for all its inhabitants - a perfect world for eternity.

I do ask, "Well WHY was I not BORN right into that situation? Why this fall, this sin, this need for salvation ?"

Its a valid question. I have my thoughts. But in this short post I won't elaborate too much. I do know what history is going. I do know that in the eyes of God it has already all been accomplished. From His eternal standpoint He looks down and sees that everything has already all been done that needs to be done.

Time - consists of some things God has to handle in preparation for eternity. These things involve the free will of his creatures, the consequences of the wrong choice of that free will, and His loving and merciful and faithful salvation.

It appears that God has allowed one grand Rebel to head up any and all revolt against His government for all time. All has been subsumed under this high creation the Daystar - Lucifer whom became Satan.

God has used time, it seems to me, to allowed a great repository to hold all creatures who do not want to have anything to do with their Creator.

I can write no more now.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Wise man say, 'Words are weapons when fashioned into winning arguments.'

They also turn into ropes for one's own neck when handled improperly.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

"SecondSon apparently implied that women and girls from 'pagan' cultures always
were better off in the (monotheistic) Hebrew camp, even if they were enslaved and raped."

Duchess, how on earth did you get the impression I "implied" any of that? A person would have to be a bigoted fool to even think in those terms.

I resent the implication that you might think I would be so shallow.

Consider the reality duchess. Life for women 3000 years ago in the Middle East was vastly different than it is in today's modern societies, but it's still the same the world over in many places.

You're naive if you think it will ever go away. Women and children are preyed upon at every level. That's the way the world is, and it won't change till Jesus returns and sets up shop.

Until then women will continue to be paraded as sex objects everywhere and across all mediums.

And you're wrong about the Hebrews. God has never approved of or endorsed rape and sexual enslavement. It's idiotic, and it's not in the Bible.

@sonship said
It is now where I am 3:46 PM. If God should enact justice upon all the world for the next one half hour, where do you think you and I would be at 4:16 ? We fit right in quite well with "bad people".

What do you think your God would do to you during - or because of - that half hour [3:46 - 4:16, "enact justice upon all the world"] and why would He do it? In what way do you fit right in quite well with "bad people" ~ who presumably include rapists, murderers, war criminals, and perpetrators of genocide? What "justice" do you and Ghost of a Duke deserve?

@secondson said
Women and children are preyed upon at every level. That's the way the world is, and it won't change till Jesus returns and sets up shop.

Until then women will continue to be paraded as sex objects everywhere and across all mediums.

And you're wrong about the Hebrews. God has never approved of or endorsed rape and sexual enslavement. It's idiotic, and it's not in the Bible.

Which of the Hebrew's Ten Commandments do you think most addresses things like rape and 'women and children being preyed upon at every level'?