This old chestnut, again

@divegeester said
It’s a very simple question I’m asking you, is what you call your spirit something metaphysical or...not?

I suspect your narrow definition of metaphysics comes from the same dictionary as altruism, so you better explain what you mean by that exactly.

I've said clearly that spirit is something from within us (not without) but is something that is not easily defined. Mr X and Mr Y each have a similar brain, but Mr X has a zest for life and an unbreakable spirit while Mr Y is apathetic and behaves as though his batteries are flat. What drives Mr X?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I suspect your narrow definition of metaphysics comes from the same dictionary as altruism, so you better explain what you mean by that exactly.

I've said clearly that spirit is something from within us (not without) but is something that is not easily defined. Mr X and Mr Y each have a similar brain, but Mr X has a zest for life and an unbreakable spirit while Mr Y is apathetic and behaves as though his batteries are flat. What drives Mr X?

You are or course free to not answer my question.

@divegeester said
You are or course free to not answer my question.

I did.

Perhaps just explain your own special definition of metaphysical.


Edit: While we wait, William Harvey described a ‘vital spirit’ or 'vital force', which animated the whole body, as the engine in a factory moved the machinery.

@divegeester said
Do you have a metaphysical spirit?

If you don’t have a metaphysical spirit to move, then saying that the sunset “moved your spirit” is just pseudo-ethereal meaningless waffle describing a nice warm emotional feeling.

It's a turn of phrase, and it all depends on your definition of the word 'spirit'. I think it fits the bill, you don't, and I've asked you before to provide an alternative word which you can accept. However, since this has now turned into you insulting my point of view there really isn't any point in discussing it further. We can all do that, it's a cheap trick and achieves nothing. I'm gone, pity, it could have been an interesting chat.

Curious how atheists are not allowed to use the word spiritual, due to not believing in God, but are expected to share in the concept of 'sin' even though they don't believe there is any deity to sin against.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I did.

Perhaps just explain your own special definition of metaphysical.

Ok.

Let’s call it beyond the physics of the natural world and science and into the supernatural, beyond the natural, into the world of spirits, souls. This is what I call spirituality.

Everything else is physical and of the natural world. This would include the human body, the mind and its natural functions.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Curious how atheists are not allowed to use the word spiritual, due to not believing in God, but are expected to share in the concept of 'sin' even though they don't believe there is any deity to sin against.

Who are you referring to?

Not me I hope; as far as I’m concerned you can believe in or be deluded by whatever you like.

@divegeester said
Who are you referring to?

Not me I hope; as far as I’m concerned you can believe in or be deluded by whatever you like.

I specifically had sonship in mind.

@indonesia-phil said
It's a turn of phrase, and it all depends on your definition of the word 'spirit'. I think it fits the bill, you don't, and I've asked you before to provide an alternative word which you can accept. However, since this has now turned into you insulting my point of view there really isn't any point in discussing it further. We can all do that, it's a cheap trick and achieves nothing. I'm gone, pity, it could have been an interesting chat.

If you are this easily offended then I suggest the internet is not the place for you. I do hope that my post doesn’t “offend your delicate sensibilities”.

😉

@divegeester said
Ok.

Let’s call it beyond the physics of the natural world and science and into the supernatural, beyond the natural, into the world of spirits, souls. This is what I call spirituality.

Everything else is physical and of the natural world. This would include the human body, the mind and its natural functions.

The spirit I refer to is 'not' beyond the physical natural world, it is the force within us that drives human existence.

We have different uses of the word, but neither invalidates the other.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I specifically had sonship in mind.

Humph, ok then.

Because despite our disagreement on terminology I fully support your right to classify my theism as delusion and to reject whatever you wish.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The spirit I refer to is 'not' beyond the physical natural world, it is the force within us that drives human existence.

We have different uses of the word, but neither invalidates the other.

Then as with altruism we are simply arguing over definitions and perhaps the motivation for atheists liking the term spirituality.

@divegeester said
If you are this easily offended then I suggest the internet is not the place for you. I do hope that my post doesn’t “offend your delicate sensibilities”.

😉

Labeling his post meaningless waffle doesn't foster ongoing discussion. It looks like you were shutting down a discussion where you were clearly on the back foot.

@divegeester said
Then as with altruism we are simply arguing over definitions and perhaps the motivation for atheists liking the term spirituality.

I genuinely think you apply such a restrictive definition to these things that you render them impossible. Altruism, for example, is simply an act where our primary motivation isn't self-interest. It is nothing more complicated than that. And 'spirit' has long had a non-religious interpretation.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Labeling his post meaningless waffle doesn't foster ongoing discussion. It looks like you were shutting down a discussion where you were clearly on the back foot.

It is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

Perhaps if Phil hadn’t sneered at my “delicate sensibilities” I wouldn’t have felt compelled to step on his.

Why not think about that? 🙂

Edit “back foot” how?