This old chestnut, again

@divegeester said
Yeah I think so.

It’s all about definitions again. I define spirituality as the being part of metaphysical universe (assuming there is such a thing) where spirits exist, human spirits rather than the ubiquitous ‘having spirit’ i.e. linked to personality.

I suppose my challenge is that some atheists want to claim the word “spirituality” in order to remain hold of ...[text shortened]... od thing, I just object to the term “spirituality” being used to describe such meditative processes.

Bearing in mind the non-existence of gods, atheists actually have a better claim to the term 'spirituality' in applying it to 'ethereal aspects of mindfulness.'

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Bearing in mind the non-existence of gods, atheists actually have a better claim to the term 'spirituality' in applying it to 'ethereal aspects of mindfulness.'

What would you base that assertion on? Other than and atheist also asserting “bearing in mind the non-existence of gods”.

@divegeester said
What would you base that assertion on? Other than and atheist also asserting “bearing in mind the non-existence of gods”.

An atheist, by the very definition, does not believe in the existence of deities and will therefore use the term 'spirituality' in a manner of their choosing, even if it gets the goat of a deist.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
An atheist, by the very definition, does not believe in the existence of deities and will therefore use the term 'spirituality' in a manner of their choosing, even if it gets the goat of a deist.

Do you really think it “gets my goat” if an atheist chooses to think they are being spiritual?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
An atheist, by the very definition, does not believe in the existence of deities and will therefore use the term 'spirituality' in a manner of their choosing

It’s a free world.

I say they are either deluded in thinking they are being [literally] “spiritual” or pretending they are “spiritual” in sort of flowery non-metaphysical cognitive sort of way, or maybe as you say just “choosing” to use the word out of its traditional definition in the hope of “getting the goat” of a theist they’ve met on the internet.

@divegeester said
It’s a free world.

I say they are either deluded in thinking they are being [literally] “spiritual” or pretending they are “spiritual” in sort of flowery non-metaphysical cognitive sort of way, or maybe as you say just “choosing” to use the word out of its traditional definition in the hope of “getting the goat” of a theist they’ve met on the internet.

I think you need to be a little wary of pulling out the deluded card in a religious thread.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think you need to be a little wary of pulling out the deluded card in a religious thread.

That sounds a bit like a scientist threatening me, a non-scientist, to not quote Einstein in the science forum.

Or are you suggesting that atheists are delusion proof?

@divegeester said
I suppose my challenge is that some atheists want to claim the word “spirituality” in order to remain hold of the more ethereal aspects of mindfulness. Which of itself is good thing, I just object to the term “spirituality” being used to describe such meditative processes.

The error here is to presume we need to 'claim' it, as though the word belongs to the religious folk.

And by 'objecting' to atheists using it, kind of suggests it gets your goat.

@divegeester said
That sounds a bit like a scientist threatening me, a non-scientist, to not quote Einstein in the science forum.

Or are you suggesting that atheists are delusion proof?

An atheist could play the 'deluded' card in every conversation with a theist and would invariably destroy every communication. So saying atheists are deluded for using the word spirituality kind of sticks in the gullet.

@divegeester said
It’s a free world.

Then why object?


"I just object to the term “spirituality” being used to describe such meditative processes."

@divegeester said
Do you really think it “gets my goat” if an atheist chooses to think they are being spiritual?

If I could answer this, since it's a convenient question to answer, I'm not trying to get anyone's goat, I don't even particularly like goats. All I'm asking is, since you say that you accept that what we might for now call a higher state of consciousness exists through normal brain function, whether we believe in a god or not, what would you call this in an atheist? If you think that theists have a monopoly on the words 'spiritual' or 'spirituality', give us another word we can use so that we don't get hung up on semantics.
To use a rather cliched example, if an atheist like myself sees a beautiful sunset, I might say that it 'moves my spirit', which seems fair enough to me, but if you object to the 's' word, give us another one which doesn't offend your literary sensibilities.

@indonesia-phil said
If I could answer this, since it's a convenient question to answer, I'm not trying to get anyone's goat, I don't even particularly like goats. All I'm asking is, since you say that you accept that what we might for now call a higher state of consciousness exists through normal brain function, whether we believe in a god or not, what would you call this in an atheist? I ...[text shortened]... if you object to the 's' word, give us another one which doesn't offend your literary sensibilities.

To me, a person's spirit (with or without God) is their very essence, the thing that carries them through life.

In this sense, even the proverbial goat has spirit.

@indonesia-phil said
If I could answer this, since it's a convenient question to answer, I'm not trying to get anyone's goat, I don't even particularly like goats. All I'm asking is, since you say that you accept that what we might for now call a higher state of consciousness exists through normal brain function, whether we believe in a god or not, what would you call this in an atheist? I ...[text shortened]... if you object to the 's' word, give us another one which doesn't offend your literary sensibilities.

If you feel that you’re experiencing a higher state of consciousness then I suppose you have to ask if that experience is metaphysical or not. If not, then it can’t be “spiritual”.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
To me, a person's spirit (with or without God) is their very essence, the thing that carries them through life.

In science it’s called a brain.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Then why object?


"I just object to the term “spirituality” being used to describe such meditative processes."

Because it’s a free world.