Originally posted by wolfgang59Pardon my interruption, but as "an impartial atheist", you're not likely to know what you're talking about on this subject. You talking about this is almost as nonsensical as the man-made JW dogma in the first place.
As an impartial atheist I've got to agree with you.
That Trinity nonsense is ridiculous.
As jaywill said, one cannot see or understand the fullness of the Trinity without the Holy Spirit. That could explain why the JWs have a problem with it too.
Originally posted by RJHindsIf you had the ability to distinguish to whom this and many other scriptures were actually speaking about, you might just learn the truth of them. This is not speaking of Jesus at all but is speaking only of his Father Jehovah whom you so recklessly ignor, and whom you have to ignor otherwise your trinity would not work in your mind.
Let's see if you can grasp the following passage from the Messiah that reveals the Trinity in the Old Testament book of Isaiah.
[b]“Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them,
T ...[text shortened]...
There you see the Father, the Holy Spirit, and Christ is one verse in the Old Testament.[/b]
Isaiah 48:12-16
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
12 “Listen to me, Ya‘akov;
Isra’el, whom I have called:
I am he who is first;
I am also the last.
13 My hand laid the foundation of the earth,
my right hand spread out the heavens;
when I summoned them,
at once they rose into being.
14 “All of you, assemble and listen:
which of you has foretold what is coming?
Adonai’s friend will do his will against Bavel,
using his arm against the Kasdim.
15 It is I who have spoken,
I have summoned him,
I have brought him,
and he will succeed.
16 “Come close to me, and listen to this:
since the beginning I have not spoken in secret,
since the time things began to be, I have been there;
and now """""Adonai Elohim""""" has sent me and his Spirit.”
http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.cfm
The Names of God in the Old Testament
Introduction
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
El Elyon (The Most High God)
Adonai (Lord, Master)
Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner)
Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd)
Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals)
Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)
Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
Elohim (God)
Qanna (Jealous)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
Of all the names of humans and spirit beings that exist or have exited, you pick the one name of the Most High Almighty God to ignor and disrespect and turn your back on is, "Jehovah"? That is the most outright foolish and dangerous thing a human being could ever do.....
Originally posted by SuzianneHoly Spirit? Your sure about that huh?
Pardon my interruption, but as "an impartial atheist", you're not likely to know what you're talking about on this subject. You talking about this is almost as nonsensical as the man-made JW dogma in the first place.
As jaywill said, one cannot see or understand the fullness of the Trinity without the Holy Spirit. That could explain why the JWs have a problem with it too.
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Jehovah is not the name of God. And the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" is just a trademark name of the Watchtower book selling company of the 1930s. The name "Jehovah" was just a made-up name by an English translator to use for the name of God in the Old English Holy Bible. Gullible people, like you, are just too ignorant to know any better. Now you know better.
If you had the ability to distinguish to whom this and many other scriptures were actually speaking about, you might just learn the truth of them. This is not speaking of Jesus at all but is speaking only of his Father Jehovah whom you so recklessly ignor, and whom you have to ignor otherwise your trinity would not work in your mind.
Isaiah 48:12-16
...[text shortened]... Jehovah"? That is the most outright foolish and dangerous thing a human being could ever do.....
The Moron Instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsRight........
Jehovah is not the name of God. And the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" is just a trademark name of the Watchtower book selling company of the 1930s. The name "Jehovah" was just a made-up name by an English translator to use for the name of God in the Old English Holy Bible. Gullible people, like you, are just too ignorant to know any better. Now you know better.
The Moron Instructor
Originally posted by galveston75oK ....can you acknowledge that some truths are paradoxical ? (simple Yes or No) I'm not saying you have to believe in the trinity just that some things can appear to be two things at once which seem to disagree ?
I respect your views Manny, I really do, no no issues there. But if one were to be strickly analytical and pull back from doctrines and go stricly on what the Bible says, the trinity does not exist in it and in fact all the Bible disagrees with it.
None of God's people before Jesus and after, never taught it and never mentioned it al all. Not even once ...[text shortened]... t it, too many voids in a clear explination of it and the "continuity of the bible" condmens it.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71No I don't know of a truth in the BIBLE as being paradoxical. God had it written in the Bible that he is "one God". How is that confusing or a paradox?
oK ....can you acknowledge that some truths are paradoxical ? (simple Yes or No) I'm not saying you have to believe in the trinity just that some things can appear to be two things at once which seem to disagree ?
Manny
But do you believe they exist in the bible? It seems that in order for one to believe the trinity, one eventually has to somehow accept this mysterious teaching as many do and just go with it.
Their church leaders can't explain it but yet say it is truth.
truth [trooth] Show IPA
noun, plural truths [troothz, trooths] Show IPA .
1.
the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
2.
conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3.
a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4.
the state or character of being true.
5.
actuality or actual existence.
So our established explination of the word truth is very clear, no confusion, no guessing, no arguements, but a true and clear fact that all would agree on.
The sun comes up in the east and sets in the west. A truth.
God himself says he is "one God" and never ever says anything to change that fact anywhere in the Bible. A truth.
It was man 400 years after Jesus died that allowed this trinity doctrine to come into thier teachings. Nothing has ever been said to humans "by God" to change his original words of him being a singular being, ever.
Originally posted by galveston75The First and the Last is Jesus according to Revelation 1:17-18 and Revelation 2:8, so that proves the one speaking is Jesus in Isaiah 48:12.
If you had the ability to distinguish to whom this and many other scriptures were actually speaking about, you might just learn the truth of them. This is not speaking of Jesus at all but is speaking only of his Father Jehovah whom you so recklessly ignor, and whom you have to ignor otherwise your trinity would not work in your mind.
Isaiah 48:12-16
...[text shortened]... Jehovah"? That is the most outright foolish and dangerous thing a human being could ever do.....
Therefore, the me in Isaiah 48:16 is also Jesus, the First and the Last. God sent Jesus, the First and the Last, and also the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15).
Originally posted by galveston75Your belief is an Antichrist belief similar to the Muslims.
No I don't know of a truth in the BIBLE as being paradoxical. God had it written in the Bible that he is "one God". How is that confusing or a paradox?
But do you believe they exist in the bible? It seems that in order for one to believe the trinity, one eventually has to somehow accept this mysterious teaching as many do and just go with it.
Their ...[text shortened]... r been said to humans "by God" to change his original words of him being a singular being, ever.
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
(1 John 2:22-23 NKJV)
Originally posted by RJHindsNone of those are speaking of Jesus...
The First and the Last is Jesus according to Revelation 1:17-18 and Revelation 2:8, so that proves the one speaking is Jesus in Isaiah 48:12.
Therefore, the [b]me in Isaiah 48:16 is also Jesus, the First and the Last. God sent Jesus, the First and the Last, and also the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15).[/b]