- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Jul 19
2 edits
Nether is eternal torment for unbelievers
What does this passage mean ?
"But the cowardly and UNBELIEVING and abominable and murderers and fornicators and sorcerers and idolaters and all the false, their part will be in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8)
Where does it say is the destiny of "the ... unbelieving" ?
And what does this passage mean about suffering the penalty of eternal destruction?
" ... the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of His power, in flaming fire,
Rendering vengeance to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His strength when He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed ..." (See 1 Thess. 1:7-10)
03 Jul 19
@sonship saidIt means what it says. I see nothing of eternal torment.
@Rajk999
Nether is eternal torment for unbelievers
What does this passage mean ?
"But the cowardly and UNBELIEVING and abominable and murderers and fornicators and sorcerers and idolaters and all the false, their part will be in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8)
Where ...[text shortened]... His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed ..." (See 1 Thess. 1:7-10) [/quote]
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Jul 19
2 edits
@Rajk999
Clear enough as a warning.
But this especially is useful for the contrast of a city of life giving water (of the Holy Spirit).
Now does a lost and unbelieving sinner suffer the"penalty" of "eternal destruction" ?
Are you saying a non-existing person will suffer "eternal destruction" as a "penalty" ?
03 Jul 19
@sonship saidWhat does it matter? The fact is, It does not say eternal torment. Why are you so hung up on proving eternal torment for unbelievers when your own house is in a mess?
@Rajk999
Clear enough as a warning.
But this especially is useful for the contrast of a city of life giving water (of the Holy Spirit).
Now does a sinner suffer the penalty of "eternal destruction" ?
Are you saying a non-existing person will suffer "eternal destruction" as a "penalty" ?
Evil doers will be destroyed. God is not a respecter of persons. All [including Christian] who live in sin and are judged to be evil will be destroyed.
There are 3 exceptions.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Jul 19
2 edits
@Rajk999
You introduced the phrase eternal torment into this thread.
I simply asked you what these verses meant - with a view to getting you to indicated them mean either something eternal and pleasant or something eternal and unpleasant ?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Jul 19
What does it matter? The fact is, It does not say eternal torment. Why are you so hung up on proving eternal torment for unbelievers when your own house is in a mess?
I turn this question to YOU.
Why are YOU so hung up on OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS for eternal life when your own house is in a mess ?
In this thread I emphasized the contrast of the city of water to a lake of fire.
Which have I written about MORE In this thread?
Seems I am "hung up" more on the city of water doesn't it?
Now I think the reason you ALWAYS say you are not here to talk about your personal testimony but only doctrines is precisely because your conscience realizes your own house is in a mess, perhaps ?
Christ is both the answer for forgiveness AND for arranging the house in good order.
03 Jul 19
@sonship saidI answered. There is no eternal torment for unbelievers, It is not about this thread. It is a doctrine YOU CONTINUALLY PREACH.
@Rajk999
You introduced the phrase eternal torment into this thread.
I simply asked you what these verses meant - with a view to getting you to indicated them mean either something eternal and pleasant or something eternal and unpleasant ?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Jul 19
@Rajk999
Do you think it is a matter of great pride for you that you do not have or cannot teach the assurance of eternal life ?
Is that something you wear as a badge like a old fashion Catholic who is waiting to see how it will all turn out if he just tries harder tomorrow?
In your school every student repeats kindergarten a hundred times. There is no other grade. There is only endless repeating the first principles of your teaching.
03 Jul 19
@sonship saidIdiots speak of themselves and what they do all the time. It is the hallmark of a man of poor intellect and low self esteem. You qualify. So does Suzainne and a couple others.
@Rajk999
What does it matter? The fact is, It does not say eternal torment. Why are you so hung up on proving eternal torment for unbelievers when your own house is in a mess?
I turn this question to YOU.
Why are YOU so hung up on OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS for eternal life when your own house is in a mess ?
In this thread I emphasized the contrast of ...[text shortened]... erhaps ?
Christ is both the answer for forgiveness AND for arranging the house in good order.
Jesus advised to resist the temptation to do it. I follow that advice.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Jul 19
1 edit
@Rajk999
The posters you mention, I think have all on an occasion spoken of their personal spiritual lives.
Behind a fake dedication to doctrine you hide your mess.
This thread was dedicated to seeing that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is foretasting what of a fuller taste which will completely fill the city of God.
You came stammering in here with your usual one note piano, insisting all belief in grace of God is unorthodox.
There is one grade in your school. Everybody has to repeat first grade 80 times and still never go on to any more maturity.
03 Jul 19
@sonship saidWho has assurance of eternal life is up to God / Christ. You are a damn fool for proclaiming that you know for certain all Christians who profess faith have this assurance. The assurance of eternal life is for the elect of Christ, which is a select group. . Of course you are free to live in whatever delusion that makes you happy.
@Rajk999
Do you think it is a matter of great pride for you that you do not have or cannot teach the assurance of eternal life ?
Is that something you wear as a badge like a old fashion Catholic who is waiting to see how it will all turn out if he just tries harder tomorrow?
In your school every student repeats kindergarten a hundred times. There is no other grade. There is only endless repeating the first principles of your teaching.
03 Jul 19
@sonship saidYou are starting to sound like a bigger fool than you normally do. Maybe it is time to practice this 'not speaking to me' lie that you made earlier.
@Rajk999
The posters you mention, I think have all on an occasion spoken of their personal spiritual lives.
Behind a fake dedication to doctrine you hide your mess.
This thread was dedicated to seeing that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is foretasting what of a fuller taste which will completely fill the city of God.
You came stammering in here with your u ...[text shortened]... our school. Everybody has to repeat first grade 80 times and still never go on to any more maturity.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Jul 19
1 edit
@Rajk999
If there is no eternal torment then what does the words mean about the followers of Antichrist and the false prophet?
If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also shall drink of the wine of the fury of God, which is mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath, and he shall be tormented in the fire and brimstone before the holy angels and before the Lamb.
And the smoke of their tormenting goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name. " (Rev. 14:9,10)
See if you can answer the question about a point that YOU brought up here and inserted into the thread.
Do so without these EXCUSES for not answering:
1.) I like to talk about eternal torment a lot.
2.) I am hung up on eternal punishment a lot.
03 Jul 19
1 edit
@sonship saidYou are truly dumb. Did I not say earlier that there are 3 exceptions?
@Rajk999
If there is no eternal torment then what does the words mean about the followers of Antichrist and the false prophet?
[quote] If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also shall drink of the wine of the fury of God, which is mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath, and he shall be tor ...[text shortened]...
1.) I like to talk about eternal torment a lot.
2.) I am hung up on eternal punishment a lot.