01 Jul 19
@divegeester saidLike a true worshiper of Satan the man attempted to write about good works and righteousness and he failed to produce one sentence from the teachings of Christ. Neither could he state one statement from the Apostles about brotherly love and charity. To me that says it all.
This is not right old chap, not in my opinion.
Satan is opposed to Christ.
Satan opposes good works
Satan encourages sin and evil.
Satan encourages disobedience
Satan discourages following the commandments.
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@divegeester
It is noted and appreciated that you do not go as far as Rajk999's condemning words.
Sonship, you may think my challenge is personal but I promise you it isn’t. It’s scriptural. There is NO “city of water”. These emotive adjectives and poetic descriptions are simply not in the bible. However the rivers etc are.
I’m comfortable with metaphors but we must stick to the actual text as a starting point because being metaphors they are likely to be evocative and expansive.
When you wish to elaborate on your details of Jesus standing around forever watching flesh burn, could you remember this "actual text" matter as well ? I mean if you are concerned about being "evocative and expansive" I think your way of adding special effects like "being kept alive" for torture are "evocative and expansive" embellishments of the text of the New Testament.
Revelation 14 - the worst of the worst being punished before the Lamb and in His presence doesn't call for going overboard to portray Jesus has enjoying nothing else to gazing at their torment for eternity.
And if you do so, some can appreciate why I would contrast a "city of water" to a "lake of fire" as important to the ending of history.
01 Jul 19
@sonship saidIf you are saying that the scriptures regarding this are metaphorical and not literal then I am totally with you. Otherwise I’m not sure what you are saying.
@divegeester
When you wish to elaborate on your details of Jesus standing around forever watching flesh burn, could you remember this "actual text" matter as well ?
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@divegeester
I am saying when you pushed poetic license to drive home your hatred for the teaching of eternal judgment I didn't see a lot of concern for "evocative and expansive" unbiblical phrases and expressions.
01 Jul 19
@sonship saidWhat utter foolishness
@divegeester
I am saying when you pushed poetic license to drive home your hatred for the teaching of eternal judgment I didn't see a lot of concern for "evocative and expansive" unbiblical phrases and expressions.
01 Jul 19
@sonship saidYou just appear to be pissed off about something to me.
@divegeester
I am saying when you pushed poetic license to drive home your hatred for the teaching of eternal judgment I didn't see a lot of concern for "evocative and expansive" unbiblical phrases and expressions.
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02 Jul 19
1 edit
You just appear to be pissed off about something to me.
I know you consider yourself nothing but innocent. But people can be pissed off at you just as much as with anybody else.
Like YOU are beyond being pissed off at ??
And I bet you'd love for me to tell you why if I was.
Getting on some posters nerves seems to be one of your missions here.
02 Jul 19
1 edit
@sonship saidThere is no “city of water” in the bible.
Getting on some posters nerves seems to be one of your missions here.
There is no “fountain of blood” in the bible.
There is no “trinity” in the bible.
These are man-made artefacts and are erroneous in their nomenclature and worthless in hermeneutics.
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There is no “city of water” in the bible.
There is no “fountain of blood” in the bible.
There is no “trinity” in the bible.
These are man-made artefacts and are erroneous in their nomenclature and worthless in hermeneutics.
Does this mean that you are not going to write anything to make me angry ?
This nonsense is more amusing, in a kind of sad way.
03 Jul 19
@sonship saidThe list of nonsensical stuff you believe in is actually much longer than that.
@divegeester
There is no “city of water” in the bible.
There is no “fountain of blood” in the bible.
There is no “trinity” in the bible.
These are man-made artefacts and are erroneous in their nomenclature and worthless in hermeneutics.
Does this mean that you are not going to write anything to make me angry ?
This nonsense is more amusing, in a kind of sad way.
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03 Jul 19
3 edits
Divegeester,
These are man-made artefacts and are erroneous in their nomenclature and worthless in hermeneutics.
In my most non-grumpy tone today, I would say to you:
When Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead the disciple of Jesus into all the truth, I do not think it means either of TWO extremes:
1.) Extreme that no Christian who utters something that is absolutely [not] present verbatim in the TEXT should be listened to.
2.) Extreme that EVERYTHING some Christian says the Bible shows MUST be taken as good Bible teaching.
I think you are raising a false alarm, all things considered.
I seek the middle way between the two extremes.
Some things uttered are quite readily seen in the facts of the Bible. Or a little bit of poetic license does not betray them.
Not everything put forth as a biblical concept must be accepted. A case by case examination is in order.
There IS a fountain opened for cleansing (redemption)" literally in the word of God.
The fact that eternal redemption is through the blood of Jesus Christ is clear TEACHING of the Bible.
So what is wrong with a song praising God for a fountain filled with blood ?
There is that the Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
If limited human language arrives at a phrase to protect from detraction, like "trinity" what is wrong with that ?
The eternal city of God is spoken of again and again as being blessed with the water of life, God's Spirit.
What then is wrong with stating in contrast to "the lake of fire" the positive alternative "a City of water"?
Do we not make clear what is MEANT ... by "city of [living] water" ? Has it not been made clear what such a expression is meant to convey?
Did I give the impression to you that it meant a metropolitan area with nearly nothing but expansive plumbing throughout ?
Did I give you the impression that I meant a Venice like area where the buildings are sinking into the sea ?
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03 Jul 19
The shorter version of the above verbose post is here:
When Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead the disciple of Jesus into all the truth, I do not think it means either of TWO extremes:
1.) Extreme that no Christian who utters something that is absolutely [not] present verbatim in the TEXT should be listened to.
2.) Extreme that EVERYTHING some Christian says the Bible shows MUST be taken as good Bible teaching.
03 Jul 19
@sonship said“City of water” is not in the Bible.
The shorter version of the above verbose post is here:
When Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead the disciple of Jesus into all the truth, I do not think it means either of TWO extremes:
1.) Extreme that no Christian who utters something that is absolutely [not] present verbatim in the TEXT should be listened to.
2.) Extreme that EVERYTHING some Christian says the Bible shows MUST be taken as good Bible teaching.
Period.
03 Jul 19
@divegeester saidNether is eternal torment for unbelievers
“City of water” is not in the Bible.
Period.
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03 Jul 19
1 edit
In this thread what Christ said would flow out of the innermost being of all who believe in Him is what the Apostle John saw as the main feature not only flowing out of man's inner being. But it is what he saw flowing out of the throne of God and down the middle of the street of the final city of God.
This is marvelous. The Spirit by which Christian walks today will so enlarge to be the governing principle of life and existence in the eternal climax of Christ's salvation.
The two passages John 7:37-39 and Revelation 22:1,2 indicate also the center of God's administration - His throne is the governing spontaneous power to live in each individual son of God and in the entire New Jerusalem together.
Christ the Redeemer today and forever will guide the believers to fountains of water of life in this eternal corporate "city" of God's life.
" ... they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits upon the throne will tabernacle over them.
... the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and guide them to springs of waters of life; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." (See Rev. 7:15-17)
Did you drink of the Lord Jesus today ?