Teaching Creationism is a crime.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]hate is not conquered by hate. Hate is conquered by love.
Assuming, of course, that hate is undesirable and must be conquered.

I am not a Buddhist either, for that matter, but this statement seems to me to contain an eternal truth.
An eternal truth?
How do you define this, exactly?

I do not stuff them with my own thoughts, becau ...[text shortened]... ance is to invite ridicule, scorn and vociferous objection.
You ought not to feign innocence.

Assuming, of course, that hate is undesirable and must be conquered.
Fair enough. I can only say that in my experience hate generates negative energy, shuts down reason and perpetuates discord.

An eternal truth? How do you define this, exactly?
One that is true for all time, all people, irrespective of context.

If you are informed by any thought--- and you are--- if you are in possession of any philosophy--- and you are--- you cannot help but transfer some of that thought to folks with whom you come in contact... regardless of what drives you.
Of course. But the point I was making, which I think you have sidestepped, is that an educator must allow children breadth to think for themselves.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
[b]Assuming, of course, that hate is undesirable and must be conquered.
Fair enough. I can only say that in my experience hate generates negative energy, shuts down reason and perpetuates discord.

An eternal truth? How do you define this, exactly?
One that is true for all time, all people, irrespective of context.

If you are informed ...[text shortened]... k you have sidestepped, is that an educator must allow children breadth to think for themselves.

"One that is true for all time, all people, irrespective of context."

I am all for truth that is timeless and holds all people too, but without a
single standard across all time for all people, who is to say this "X" is true
for all no matter what? I get that God could, since He is a timeless source
that is greater than man; however, without God are you just pushing your
views on what you think is good and true on others who may not agree
with you?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
What a worthless question, it is a matter of how people behave and you
have people in all belief systems AND or non belief systems. People will
kill in the name of "pro life", people will steal while pushing aid for others.
People do evil things, and they do try to hide their evil actions by trying
to hide in good causes or groups. What motivation is re ...[text shortened]... nd so on, and you can have that in or out side of religious beliefs or even
non beliefs.
Kelly

That is the point we are making.

No-one killed anyone because of their atheism. Their lack of belief may have enabled them to more easily set aside their concerns over potential consequences for them of their actions. But it is a logical nonsense to say that their lack of belief in God was their motivation. Lust for power, revenge, money etc, but not believing in something does not and cannot motivate you to do something.

However, back in Mosaic times, when gay people and adulterers were stoned to death, they were being killed solely as a result of someone's particular religious beliefs.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"... you guys."? Seriously, if you are going to lump everyone together who
acts like one who is a Creationist, then you have no right to ignore the
claims that Atheist do evil things and get away with it due to the good
record of a handful.
Kelly

No-one has denied that atheists do evil things. They just don't do them because of their atheism.

And are you really saying that only a handful of atheists 'have a good record'?

What do you mean by this? That only a handful of atheists live worthwhile, moral lives?

Originally posted by KellyJay
LOL, Atheism the great not my fault belief system.
Kelly

Do you really think that atheists are apologists for genocide?

Originally posted by Rank outsider
That is the point we are making.

No-one killed anyone because of their atheism. Their lack of belief may have enabled them to more easily set aside their concerns over potential consequences for them of their actions. But it is a logical nonsense to say that their lack of belief in God was their motivation. Lust for power, revenge, money etc, but ...[text shortened]... d to death, they were being killed solely as a result of someone's particular religious beliefs.

People are killed because of lust, greed, or some other human desire I do
imagine more are held back from killing because of their faith than are
driving to kill due to it. I'm not sure what part of an Atheist belief system
could whole one back from that since as far as I know the whole point is
there is nothing like a religious text for them to go by, but it is whatever
each person wants, or don't want to live their life by. If we are looking for
cause, it is the heart of man that causes it, and simply being in one group
or another doesn't change that.

People wrap themselves up in anything to hide their actions for what they
really are, they may push race, religion, government, the flag, or some
other ideal that covers them and gives their mind some type of cover for
the evil they do.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Do you really think that atheists are apologists for genocide?

I think Atheist can do whatever they want to get what they want without
fear of being held accountable to some higher power. So if they want to kill
off everyone they disagree with there is nothing stopping them other than
some innate of knowledge of right and wrong which they may choose to
ignore with out fear. This could done by some world leader or a gang banger.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rank outsider
No-one has denied that atheists do evil things. They just don't do them because of their atheism.

And are you really saying that only a handful of atheists 'have a good record'?

What do you mean by this? That only a handful of atheists live worthwhile, moral lives?

"What do you mean by this? That only a handful of atheists live worthwhile, moral lives?"

no
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think Atheist can do whatever they want to get what they want without
fear of being held accountable to some higher power. So if they want to kill
off everyone they disagree with there is nothing stopping them other than
some innate of knowledge of right and wrong which they may choose to
ignore with out fear. This could done by some world leader or a gang banger.
Kelly

So, the only thing that keeps you from killing off everyone is your fear of a higher power ? And you truly believe that ? 🙄

Originally posted by caissad4
So, the only thing that keeps you from killing off everyone is your fear of a higher power ? And you truly believe that ? 🙄

I did not say that either now did I? I said they had a innate knowledge that
they would have to ignore. Atheist are no different that anyone else, they
are just people, and people can murder and rape, they can feed the hungry
and cloth the naked. What drives them or what they use to get what they
want, can be anything from religion or government is apart from human
nature but simply serves as a tool to get what they want.
Kelly

Originally posted by caissad4
So, the only thing that keeps you from killing off everyone is your fear of a higher power ? And you truly believe that ? 🙄

It isn't the only thing, but it is one of the things. One thing I believe is that
Jesus died for everyone, because of that Jesus deserves to have us treat
each person no matter how they behaved towards us with all the grace and
mercy we can, because He showed us grace and mercy to us. Our (my)
justification to treat anyone badly has been removed, because Jesus has
forgiven me all my sins, and I need to forgive everyone their sins to me.

So now I believe it isn't what occurs here now that should drive me to act
good or bad to anyone, but I need to focus on what was done for me and
treat everyone according to Jesus' grace not according to my desire to
treat people according to my views of right and wrong, good and evil.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Do you really think that atheists are apologists for genocide?

They can do whatever they want, they are their own yard stick of good and
evil.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rank outsider
No-one has denied that atheists do evil things. They just don't do them because of their atheism.

And are you really saying that only a handful of atheists 'have a good record'?

What do you mean by this? That only a handful of atheists live worthwhile, moral lives?

No, I believe people do evil things, I don't care if they call themselves
Atheist or Christian, human nature is very selfish.
Kelly

Originally posted by Pianoman1
Oh dear, guilty as charged, here is a list of famous atheists who have obviously thought that "anything is okay as long as you can get away with it."

Woody Allen, Ingmar Bergman, Richard Branson, Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Katharine Hepburn, Claude Monet, Brad Pitt, Vincent van Gogh.

Wow! A real rogues' gallery of cheap conmen! I guess your point is proved.

Vincent van Gogh
You mean the former (failed) pastor who aspired to become an artist in God's service, stating: "...to try to understand the real significance of what the great artists, the serious masters, tell us in their masterpieces, that leads to God; one man wrote or told it in a book; another in a picture."

That Vincent van Gogh?

Originally posted by Pianoman1
[b]Assuming, of course, that hate is undesirable and must be conquered.
Fair enough. I can only say that in my experience hate generates negative energy, shuts down reason and perpetuates discord.

An eternal truth? How do you define this, exactly?
One that is true for all time, all people, irrespective of context.

If you are informed ...[text shortened]... k you have sidestepped, is that an educator must allow children breadth to think for themselves.

One that is true for all time, all people, irrespective of context.
I was more leaning toward the "truth" part.
What is truth?