@fmf said
Christians have various consensuses that they rally around.

KellyJay, I've heard Christians unequivocally condemn what DeSantis did two weeks ago - with those law-abiding human beings from Venezuela - as immoral. Meanwhile, you, a self-described Christian, can't bring yourself to do so. Christian perspectives are not homogeneous.

@fmf said
There are bad people in the world. If you wouldn't be able to discern that without your faith in Jesus, so be it.

Hiding

@fmf said
There are bad people in the world. If you wouldn't be able to discern that without your faith in Jesus, so be it.

Jesus being the standard everyone falls short and that without a means to remedy ourselves on our own. You think you measure up, so be it.

@fmf said
KellyJay, I've heard Christians unequivocally condemn what DeSantis did two weeks ago - with those law-abiding human beings from Venezuela - as immoral. Meanwhile, you, a self-described Christian, can't bring yourself to do so. Christian perspectives are not homogeneous.

Changing the subject?

@fmf said
KellyJay, I've heard Christians unequivocally condemn what DeSantis did two weeks ago - with those law-abiding human beings from Venezuela - as immoral. Meanwhile, you, a self-described Christian, can't bring yourself to do so. Christian perspectives are not homogeneous.

So what is it your complaining about that you don’t get perfect consensus that the moral compasses are not all pointing in the direction you deem appropriate!?

@kellyjay said
Jesus being the standard everyone falls short and that without a means to remedy ourselves on our own. You think you measure up, so be it.

If your moral compass factors this belief in a supernatural being into your outlook and makes you think "calling someone a fool" - for example - is evil, then so be it.

@kellyjay said
So what is it your complaining about that you don’t get perfect consensus that the moral compasses are not all pointing in the direction you deem appropriate!?

I am not "complaining" about the lack of a "perfect conssus". If your "Jesus is the standard" axiom renders you uanable to criticize DeSantis, then that is your axiom influencing you, presumably.

And it is you who is now referring to a "perfect consensus", not me. If you don't find it "appropriate" to condemn what was done to those human beings, then that is your moral compass in action.

@kellyjay said
Changing the subject?

Nope. Totally germane. It is revealing that you don't think so.

@kellyjay said
Hiding

How so?

@fmf said
If your moral compass factors this belief in a supernatural being into your outlook and makes you think "calling someone a fool" - for example - is evil, then so be it.

Speaking about good and evil, God is a requirement, you brought up humans being
able to agree with one another and come to a moral consensus, that I believe has
fallen on its face concerning good and evil, do you still believe consensus is still
the way to find good and evil without God?

@kellyjay said
Speaking about good and evil, God is a requirement, you brought up humans being
able to agree with one another and come to a moral consensus, that I believe has
fallen on its face concerning good and evil, do you still believe consensus is still
the way to find good and evil without God?

Speaking about good and evil, God is a requirement

I don't think this is so, for the reasons that have been discussed here many, many times. However, if you yourself personally need your belief in your God figure in order to be able to speak about good and evil, then that's OK. If that's what your moral compass tells you, then you go with that. There is no means each of us has to govern and take responsibility for the morality of our individual actions without the work our conscience performs.

@kellyjay said
Speaking about good and evil, God is a requirement, you brought up humans being
able to agree with one another and come to a moral consensus, that I believe has
fallen on its face concerning good and evil, do you still believe consensus is still
the way to find good and evil without God?

humans being able to agree with one another and come to a moral consensus, that I believe has fallen on its face concerning good and evil

Belief in God figures - concerning good and evil - "has fallen on its face" too; history is replete with examples. It's part and parcel of the human condition.

@fmf said
Speaking about good and evil, God is a requirement

I don't think this is so, for the reasons that have been discussed here many, many times. However, if you yourself personally need your belief in your God figure in order to be able to speak about good and evil, then that's OK. If that's what your moral compass tgells you, then you go with that.

Without God, good and evil are found by what means? You want to deny God
so without God how does one know the difference, especially since there could
be competing views with consensus on every side.

@kellyjay said
Speaking about good and evil, God is a requirement, you brought up humans being
able to agree with one another and come to a moral consensus, that I believe has
fallen on its face concerning good and evil, do you still believe consensus is still
the way to find good and evil without God?

Do you still believe consensus is still the way to find good and evil without God?

The way I analyse it, the symbiotic relationship between our individual consciences and communal consensuses is the ONLY way we can discern between good and evil BECAUSE there is no consensus about a divine lawgiver.

@kellyjay said
Without God, good and evil are found by what means?

Through human conscience and through the lessons learned [and handed down] through the need to govern our human interaction. If your belief in your God figure plays a role in the decisions that your conscience makes, then so be it.