Rapture posts for Suzianne

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You've posted 11 times in a row. That probably accounts for the thumbs down.

I think we need to be sympathetic to the poor guy. Someone who is stupid, does not understand, neither does he know that he is stupid, and neither does he care. It is the others around him who suffers while he carries on oblivious to what is obvious to the rest.

@sonship said

Suzianne, you seemed to be only one somewhat interested in the axiom of the rapture causing the great tribulation. Should I go through the evidence with you?

Suzianne, I got no indication Yes or No whether you wanted to see more about the rapture. Maybe you don't want to be seen to go out on a limb. I don't know.

But I may just assume you would he ...[text shortened]... s the CAUSE of Satan coming down restricted to earth to launch a desperate career of the antichrist.

Just as you didn't see my question about Calvinism, I didn't see this question buried in the other thread until you posted this thread. I'll look this over and respond. Off the top, I see mostly stuff I agree with and some things I don't, but I'll give it a better look before I head out of town next week for a month. My time on this site has been sporadic for months now and I doubt I'll get much time to post for the next month, just in case I don't get around to answering before I leave.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond in-depth to my other post.

@Suzianne
Thanks. Be safe on your travels.

@sonship said
In spite of the long standing enmity of Satan against the people of God and their enmity with him, the stronger part of the woman is brought forth.

Within the body of God's saints there is always a remnant stronger part that are the overcoming ones. They are with her. They are part of the universally bright woman. They are reserved by God from the greater portion of weake ...[text shortened]... Church"[/b] on Revelation chapter 12.

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=1DDFC9

You make it look as if the OTs authors were either deranged or under the influence of some serious hallucinogens.
Are you suggesting these events literally occurred?

So the man-child will be raptured and Satan will be expelled finally from roaming in heavenly realms for good.

He is cast down with his angels at the resultant warfare between God's good angels who are the servants of the saints.

The man-child is a group of overcomers who are within the larger body of God's people. They are like the small army of Gideon. GIdeon won a great victory with 300 soldiers. His victory was for the benefit of the entire nation. But not the entire nations was involved in the battle.

The rest of the woman's seed is then severely persecuted on earth by the Devil and Antichrist and the false prophet. What? the fact that they are called the REST obviously means that the rapture man-child were a part of all her children.

You have to master all the facts without fail. Nothing is too insignificant to skip over.
This is the only way to entire into the depths of the book of Revelation.

"And the dragon became angry with the woman and went away to make war with THER REST OF HER SEED, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus." (12:17)

The man-child raptured were SOME of her children.
Those left on earth and having missed the early rapture are the persecuted "rest of her seed" .

They will be severely persecuted for three and one half years of the duration of the great tribulation.

"And when the dragon saw that he was cast to the earth he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man-child.

And to the woman there were given the two wings of the great eagle [God as in Exodus] that she might fly into the wilderness into her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time from the face of the serpent." (v.14)

This may indicate three and a half years of the people of God left on the earth as refugees, fleeing away from the realm of the Antichrist. The "new world" at that time when Revelation was written certainly would have been considered the wilderness to those people.

We may suspect refugees who are able to escape the realm of the government of the Antichrist will be fleeing to other areas on the globe. God as the great eagle in Exodus who assisted the fleeing Israelites from Egypt , will be assisting them.

"And the woman fled into the wilderness where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days." (v.6)

Believers in Jesus Christ, we need to be nourished in the words of the faith NOW!
Don't wait until then to be nourished by the words of God.
Feed your spiritual hunger NOW .

Are you eating the nourishing spiritual words of the word of God NOW ??

@kevcvs57

You make it look as if the OTs authors were either deranged or under the influence of some serious hallucinogens.
Are you suggesting these events literally occurred?

Revelation 1:1 says the prophecy is made known to the churches by signs.
Signs have allegorical meaning. You know that.

The skill of knowing where and how to interpret the signs is acquired through patience. We today stand upon those who have gone before to understand many of these things.

The Bible interprets the Bible. An important key to understanding the signs is to see WHERE and HOW that sign or similar symbol was used BEFORE in the Bible.

There is nothing completely NEW in the book of Revelation.
It is a recapitulation of signs and teachings and similar events which have occurred elsewhere before in the Bible - in the history of God's move.

If you are not familiar with the PREVIOUS significance of these signs it is difficult. And it is here where people introduce zany stuff.

Our interpretation here is based on PREVIOUS revelation in the Bible.
Now you will have to be more SPECIFIC if you are questioning something.

@sonship said
@kevcvs57

You make it look as if the OTs authors were either deranged or under the influence of some serious hallucinogens.
Are you suggesting these events literally occurred?

Revelation 1:1 says the prophecy is made known to the churches by signs.
Signs have allegorical meaning. You know that.

The skill of knowing where and how to int ...[text shortened]... revelation in the Bible.
Now you will have to be more SPECIFIC if you are questioning something.

So it’s open to the interpretation to the point of meaninglessness.
I’m guessing there are as many bibles as there are Christians and then throw in how each Christian is feeling on any given day that they are reading / interpreting it into the equation and your close to an infinite number of bibles for all intents and purposes.
Don’t feel bad though we inhabit a mainly subjective reality.

@kevcvs57 said
So it’s open to the interpretation to the point of meaninglessness.
I’m guessing there are as many bibles as there are Christians and then throw in how each Christian is feeling on any given day that they are reading / interpreting it into the equation and your close to an infinite number of bibles for all intents and purposes.
Don’t feel bad though we inhabit a mainly subjective reality.

Well, no, not really.

There is an entire field of study about the Apocalypse and the Book of Revelation.

A starting point might be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology

Another place to start might be the book The Late, Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey. This was a very popular book in the early '70s.

The major point of contention seems to be a timeline for all this and then the next biggest disagreement is the order of events in the end times. Much of the rest of it is established, mainline Christian thought.

@kevcvs57

So it’s open to the interpretation to the point of meaninglessness.
I’m guessing there are as many bibles as there are Christians and then throw in how each Christian is feeling on any given day that they are reading / interpreting it into the equation and your close to an infinite number of bibles for all intents and purposes.
Don’t feel bad though we inhabit a mainly subjective reality.

Okay, could you point out something I elaborated here which you consider "meaningless?"

You see, believe it or not I try to fellowship things which will be meaningful and can even be practical. I try.

The best I may be able to do is convey why it is not "meaningless" to some of us.
And if you do persuade me that something I wrote so far was without meaning, I
will consider that.

Thanks
Now what was meaningless to you?

@Suzianne

Another place to start might be the book The Late, Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey. This was a very popular book in the early '70s.

Hal Lindsey was wrong about the entire church being raptured pre-tribulation.
If you take this analysis of the end times you will have a good picture of the
matter.

But the interest Brother Lindsey sparked by his book was good.
Most of the passages about the Lord taking some from the earth are conditional in
nature.

Ie. Because THIS condition was meant THIS taking away is the result.

IE. IF you will fulfill THIS requirement THIS taking away will be the result.

The verses are conditional rather than automatic.
And if they are conditional then it is logical that some will heed and some will not.

Then you have to consider who is the audience of exhortations - the world at large or the circle of Christian believers. I think you have to consider that the recipients of the promises are Christians and not the world in general.

"Remember Lot's wife. Whoever seeks to preserve his soul-life will lose it, and whoever loses it will preserve it alive.

I tell you, In that night there will be two on one bed; the one will be taken but the other will be left."

What is the best interpretation?
Is the "two" two unbelievers? Certainly not.
Is the two "two" a believer and a non-believer?
More likely but probably not.

Then He must mean the "two" are two Christians.
One who has had a lifestyle of not seeking to preserve his soul-life for the Lord's sake and the other who has preserved his soul-life contrary to the Lord's exhortation.

TWO Christians is the best interpretation:
"There will be two women grinding together; the one is taken but the other will be left. "

TWO Christians once again:
"Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."

See Luke 17:32-36

Lot's wife was physically removed from Sodom. But her HEART was still there. This psychological condition was exposed by her backward, longing look toward the place under judgment.

"Remember Lot's wife" mean the Christians INSIDE soul and heart and desire has departed from the world. There is no last minute nostalgic glance backward.

This is brief. The main point of this post is that Hal Lindsey's analysis that the entire church on earth is raptured pre-tribulation is not reliable. All may be taken eventually. All may not be taken at the same TIME.

A pre-tribulation rapture is always in the context of heeding an exhortation or fulfilling a condition aimed at Christians.

"Because you have kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial, which is about to come on the whole inhabited earth, to try them who dwell on the earth.:" (Rev. 3:10)

Would that EVERY believer keeps the word of Christ's endurance. The fact of the matter is that all Christians do not. Sometimes you and fall short of keeping the word of His endurance.

This promise of pre-tribulation rapture Christians is conditional in nature.
It is not automatic as Hal Lindsey and others assume.

Here is the same matter expressed in more negative terms.

"Remember therefore how you have received and heard, and keep it and repent. If therefore you will not watch, I will come as a thief, and you will not know the hour I will come upon you." (Rev. 3:3)

Meet a certain condition - rapture will be the result.
Fail to meet a condition - He will come and you won't realize it.

Doesn't sound to positive. It is best not to take a chance.
We should learn to keep the word of His endurance and to watch and remember our first love, and how we first received such blessings of life from the Lord.

Do you see what I mean Suzianne?

Now the whole church may be taken eventually. But the whole church may not be taken pre-tribulation.

@rajk999 said
I think we need to be sympathetic to the poor guy. Someone who is stupid, does not understand, neither does he know that he is stupid, and neither does he care. It is the others around him who suffers while he carries on oblivious to what is obvious to the rest.

See, you can be diplomatic too when you try ......

@suzianne said
Well, no, not really.

There is an entire field of study about the Apocalypse and the Book of Revelation.

A starting point might be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology

Another place to start might be the book The Late, Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey. This was a very popular book in the early '70s.

The major point of contention seems to b ...[text shortened]... rder of events in the end times. Much of the rest of it is established, mainline Christian thought.

When you say "main line" does that also embrace Catholic and Protestant/Anglican, coz I cant say that i have ever heard of either saying too much about Revelation.