Pat Robertson: let God judge trans people

TV evangelist Pat Robertson said that he doesn't think there is any sin associated with being trans: "It's not for you to decide or to judge."

Thoughts?

@fmf said
TV evangelist Pat Robertson said that he doesn't think there is any sin associated with being trans: "It's not for you to decide or to judge."

Thoughts?

I hope he's ready for the blowback he'll get from evangelicals who don't like to be told they shouldn't judge people.

@suzianne said
I hope he's ready for the blowback he'll get from evangelicals who don't like to be told they shouldn't judge people.

Are you opposed to judging your fellow Christians?

@fmf said
TV evangelist Pat Robertson said that he doesn't think there is any sin associated with being trans: "It's not for you to decide or to judge."

Thoughts?

I take the parable about the mob which had brought an alleged adulteress before Jesus to be relevant here. Jesus said to the mob, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' Not one dared to cast a stone. Now, almost every Christian you ask about this parable will draw the conclusion that everyone is a sinner and leave it at that. Does no one ask about the message behind the message? Not even Jesus, who was sinless, cast a stone at her. The message behind the message is: no one is to judge another, sins or otherwise. That is God's business and God's alone. Not even Jesus's business was to judge another or to punish anyone for sin.

Now take it one step further: If it is not anyone's business to punish anyone's sin, then neither is it anyone's business to prohibit or prevent anyone from sinning, much less to judge what IS a sin at all. It is not the Church's business, nor is it the business of individual Christian politicians, to pass laws regulating or prohibiting homosexuality or gay-marriage or even abortion. These are matters for the soul which stands before God on judgement day.

As Suzi would probably say, we were given freedom of choice for a reason. And it wasn't to prevent others from sinning.

Don't think I don't anticipate KJ's objection already: "So everyone can just do whatever he wants ! There's no morality. Everything is allowed. What's to keep people from committing all kinds of murders and rapes and other atrocities?" To which the obvious answer is, secular laws against murder and rape and theft and fraud and so on are known from ancient times and no supernatural certification or justification or rationale is required to implement them.

@moonbus said
I take the parable about the mob which had brought an alleged adulteress before Jesus to be relevant here. Jesus said to the mob, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' Not one dared to cast a stone. Now, almost every Christian you ask about this parable will draw the conclusion that everyone is a sinner and leave it at that. Does no one ask about the message behin ...[text shortened]... times and no supernatural certification or justification or rationale is required to implement them.

Agreed, and here again, stark difference in what Jesus says v what Paul says. Here is the advice of Paul on a similar situation:

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. (1 Corinthians 5:9-13 KJV)

@rajk999 said
Agreed, and here again, stark difference in what Jesus says v what Paul says. Here is the advice of Paul on a similar situation:

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have writte ...[text shortened]... dgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. (1 Corinthians 5:9-13 KJV)

Do you think Paul would have thrown the first stone (or the second, or third, or fifteenth) against the alleged adulteress?

@Suzianne

He certainly chastised the fledgling churches of Greece, telling them were doing it all wrong. I have to assume the early Christian communities were all founded by one or another of the Apostles, so who was Paul to ‘correct’ them ?

@fmf said
Are you opposed to judging your fellow Christians?

Are you opposed to judging a mother who drowns her three young children because she thinks they're possessed?

@moonbus said
@Suzianne

He certainly chastised the fledgling churches of Greece, telling them were doing it all wrong. I have to assume the early Christian communities were all founded by one or another of the Apostles, so who was Paul to ‘correct’ them ?

Indeed. Sometimes I wonder if he might be considered the world's first Calvinist. Or Presbyterian. Or maybe Jehovah's Witness. Or maybe LDS. Or some denomination that focuses more on the punishment of sinners instead of winning them over with his righteousness, like Jesus.

@suzianne said
Do you think Paul would have thrown the first stone (or the second, or third, or fifteenth) against the alleged adulteress?

Come on, serious question, Rajk.

@suzianne said
Are you opposed to judging a mother who drowns her three young children because she thinks they're possessed?

I think it's a tragedy when superstition causes derangement of that kind.

@fmf said
TV evangelist Pat Robertson said that he doesn't think there is any sin associated with being trans: "It's not for you to decide or to judge."

Thoughts?

Maybe he's finally been converted to Christianity.

@suzianne said
Maybe he's finally been converted to Christianity.

I'm pretty sure he's been a Christian throughout the 80 or so years of his adult life. You believe he is saved by Grace and because Jesus died on the cross for him and for all mankind, do you not?

@fmf said
I'm pretty sure he's been a Christian throughout the 80 or so years of his adult life. You believe he is saved by Grace and because Jesus died on the cross for him and for all mankind, do you not?

I believe he calls himself Christian.

@suzianne said
I believe he calls himself Christian.

Do you believe people are saved by Grace because Jesus died on the cross for all mankind? In his case, do you believe Paterson is saved by his faith and by faith alone?