Once Saved Eternally Saved

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Sonship,
You Typed:
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Now let us take a look at the New Testament. Matthew 24:13 says, "But he who has endured to the end, this one shall be saved." When many see this verse, they jump up in surprise.

They think that this verse is surely about salvation and not about God's government, as we have just claimed. For example, some would sa ...[text shortened]... ce we don't know exactly how to blaspheme the Holy Ghost in the manner Christ was talking about?

I believe I have said this before on this Forum. However, I will repeat my belief on salvation again for the record.

I believe that God gave His only begotten Son, Jesus of Nazareth, as a sin sacrifice to save the whole world, so that whoever believes in Him will be given abundant eternal life by the resurrection of our bodies, just the same as Jesus was raised from the dead as a demonstration. This is what being saved by Christ means to me. This is eternal salvation. Any other kind of salvation is only temporary.

It is my opinion that anyone that says, "I am saved" in this life must be mistaken or that one is referring to something different from my understanding of eternal salvation. I may refer to my life being saved from kidney failure, but I never claim to be saved for all eternity. Christ is the only one that can do that in my opinion. I believe if I continue in this faith in Christ, then He will save me. But if I become to believe like FMF or sonhouse and die in my sins without believing in Christ as my eternal sacrifice, then I will be eternally lost.

1 John 1:8-9

King James Version (KJV)

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Originally posted by RJHinds
But if I become to believe like FMF or sonhouse and die in my sins without believing in Christ as my eternal sacrifice, then I will be eternally lost.

If you "become to believe" like me, then you won't believe in "eternal sacrifice" or being "eternally lost". If you want to worry about these things you believe in, that's fine. But there really is no sense in thinking you will still be in fear of them if you stop believing in them.

Originally posted by FMF
If you "become to believe" like me, then you won't believe in "eternal sacrifice" or being "eternally lost". If you want to worry about these things you believe in, that's fine. But there really is no sense in thinking you will still be in fear of them if you stop believing in them.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

(Romans 4:3 KJV)

Originally posted by RJHinds
[b]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

(Romans 4:3 KJV)[/b]

It would seem the point I was making went whoosh ~ right over your head. Suffice to say, with reference to what you said about 'if you believe what FMF believes', let me assure you, if that were so, you'd no longer believe the things you no longer believe. 🙂

Originally posted by sonship
[b]"But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13)

I have written briefly on assurance of eternal life through God's love and through God's plan.
...[text shortened]... corruption. The divine SEED which is the life and nature of God cannot sin and is incorruptible.[/b]

And here I had nearly lost faith that everyone here (or perhaps just a very loud minority) had strayed too far from the truth.

Kudos, jaywill, for a finely written piece, one whose meaning is important and needs to be understood before careening off into some specious argument. But the arrogant and prideful won't be listening to me, either. Thank you for writing for those "with eyes to see, and ears to hear".

Originally posted by divegeester
So it's style over content; you never seemed to take umbrage with Galveston's lengthy monologues?

Clearly, the lesson here it that G's rambling is okay because he's speaking the corporate line, while jaywill's rambling is not okay since he's speaking truth.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint

King James Version
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The Revelation 22: 19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Does this mean that the person's name will be taken out or just the part of blessings that the person could have had?
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First I consider that the warning is to "EVERYONE" and to "ANYONE". So I have to consider that it is spoken to both believers and unbelievers; both to the save and to the unsaved.

To the unbeliever such a warning would indicate eternal punishment
Whatever it means it would not indicate eternal punishment to the believer.

We have recognize that God has a very wide scope of possibilities at His disposal which come short of eternal punishment. For example Paul says that some will be saved yet so as through fire and will lose a reward:

"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire."

1.) Paul is speaking to Christians for whom the matter of eternal redemption has been already decided in the affirmative. They are building upon the foundation of Jesus Christ (v.11-14).

2.) There is a "reward" which is aside the gift of eternal life.

3.) A Christian can lose the "reward" and also "suffer loss".

4.) Though such a one loses a "reward" and suffers loss he himself will still be saved.

5.) The crucial point is that the warning is so general and open ended we dare not restrict God as to what "suffer loss" could mean. It could mean a vary wide variety of punishments short of eternal perdition. This scope could be from light to heavy to very heavy to exceedingly heave and STILL not indicate eternal punishment to the one saved.

In this way the warning of Revelation 22:18,19 can apply to "everyone" and to "anyone".

With the saint of God who is eternally saved (yet as through fire) the adding of a plague would be temporary and the taking away of his part in the blessings written in the scroll / the tree of life / the holy city would also be temporary.

And what exactly is meant when the bible tells?

King James Version
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Luke 12: 10
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

There is controversy about what a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is. If you ask my opinion, whatever it is, if it is a sin that cannot be forgiven than it cannot apply to one who is eternally redeemed - ie. a Christian.

I would not worry about it or cause young Christians to worry about it. Some people's consciences are too tender and the enemy will accuse them of having committed an unforgivable sin. No good can come from this kind of accusation. So I do not worry about Luke 12:10 at all.

Perhaps it is an offense that could have only been committed by those who were physical witnesses to the Son of God being physically present at that time. But I do not know for certain.

What is very interesting about the passage is its parallel in Matthew 12:32

"And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, in this age nor in the one to come." (Matt. 12:32)

I draw your attention to the phrase "in this age nor in the age to come" . This indicates that there can be forgiveness in this age and there can be forgiveness in the coming age.

The coming age is the age of the millennial kingdom of one thousand years. The implication of the words of Jesus are that some forgiveness can be dispensed in the coming age of the millennial kingdom.

Suppose a Christian never admits or confesses that a certain thing he has done is a sin. Suppose he has eternal life and dies never having confessed this sin. He has to confess it sometime. In the coming age, he will confess. And thought he has already be granted the gift of eternal life, to clear up this unconfessed sin that he died with, he will clear it up with the Lord in the age of the millennium, the age to come.

The flavor of such a dealing may not be with the same taste as it would be in the age of grace.

But considering the Lord's word " ... forgiven him, neither in this age NOT IN THE ONE TO COME" strongly indicates that there will be the need for some in the next age to be forgiven. Such a one is eternally redeemed. But he has to come to God acknowledging his need for a certain not dealt with offense to be cleared up before God.

Mark 3: 28, 29
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
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Can a Christian blaspheme the Holy Ghost? Is a Christian not able to blaspheme the Holy Ghost? How does a person blaspheme the Holy Ghost in the matter that Christ told about?

I do not believe a Christian can commit any sin which will not be forgiven forever. As I wrote above, whatever this blasphemy of the Holy Spirit meant, if it is unforgivable it cannot apply to one who is eternally redeemed and has eternal life.

We expect God to present us before Himself without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. We expect God's salvation to present us holy and without blemish before Him in love (Ephesians 1:4; 5:27)

Notice that in Ephesians 1:4 God's desire to present us as His sons without blemish before Him in love made before the creation of the universe -

"Even as He chose us from before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us to sonship ..."

Before the foundation of the world should mean before the creation of the universe. And how could the word say "without blemish" there still remains some unforgiven and unforgivable offense in that person. It is more likely that the universe itself go out of existence then that saved person still have in eternity a remaining blemish of an unforgiven sin. For God planned us to be without blemish and holy before the foundation of the world.

So I do not at all worry myself about any passage about a possible unforgivable sin which a Christian can commit.

Was Christ referring to a person rejecting Christ as Savior after the Holy Ghost led that person to put faith in Christ?

I don't know.

Was the Lord Jesus telling that criticizing the Holy Ghost was unforgiven?

I doubt this.
I am not sure what the specific offense is.

I do know that throughout church history it has been a unnecessary problem to some believers with a weak conscience. I think Holiness people or Pentecostal Christians tend to over worry about what it would mean to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Was Christ telling that people who claimed that devils were being cast out by the prince of the devils when in fact the Holy Ghost was casting them out had blasphemed against the Holy Ghost?

The word would be "demons" and not "devils".

I do not know exactly what the offense refers to.

Or was Christ telling the scribes to not go too far with their false accusation so that they would not blaspheme against the Holy Ghost?
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I tend to think Jesus was speaking of some offense which is perhaps impossible to commit today. I tend to believe that He was speaking of some offense which could only be committed by those of His physical presence on the earth at that time. But I don't know for sure and I never worry about it.

It seems that if a Christian does this; apparently, he will not be forgiven for it. But how exactly is it that anybody would do this action since we don't know exactly how to blaspheme the Holy Ghost in the manner Christ was talking about?

If you believe that a Christian can commit some unforgivable sin the Devil will have a heyday with you. And the accusation and condemnation will be so much of a nuisance that you will want to give up following the Lord.

My advise to you is not worry any longer about that passage.

There are things which we still do which we think are glorious. One day the light shines and we realize that Christ died for those things also. Before we thought it was fine and even good. Then we realize that this too we must agree with God is a sin.

For this reason John tells the Christians that we should confess our sins. For as our consciousness grows so does out awareness. But John says that He is faithful and RIGHTEOUS to forgive us our sins. It is the RIGHTEOUS thing for Him to do to forgive us because of the redemption of the Son of God.

We were judged in Christ on His cross at Calvary. God did not overlook our sins. God judged our sins on the cross. The realization of all in us that was judged on the cross is a life long growing realization.

Even as Proverbs 4:18 says - "And the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, which shines brighter and brighter until the full day."

Originally posted by divegeester
So it's style over content; you never seemed to take umbrage with Galveston's lengthy monologues?

Alas we live in a very cynical world!

Another reason we know that eternal life cannot be revoked is from Genesis chapter three. Once Adam had taken from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil God had to do something to keep him away from the tree of life.

"And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take aso from the tree of life and live forever -

THEREFORE Jehovah God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to work the ground from which he was taken.

So He drove the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He placed the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life." (Gen.3:22-24)

If Adam could still die after eating the fruit of the tree of life, then why did God have to take such precautions to keep man away from it ? God had to guard the way to the tree of life and send man away from it. God was afraid that Adam would live eternally if he ever ate of the tree of life.

Today a man may be redeemed through Jesus Christ. And what the redeemed of today have is not a type but the Person to whom the type points - Jesus Christ. We believers "eat" Eternal Life Himself in Christ. Can we still perish then ?

If Adam could not die after having eaten from a symbolic fruit, how can we the saved lose our eternal life after having been washed by the blood of Jesus and have "eaten" - have taken Jesus Christ into our innermost being? Adam knew the tree of life as a type. Since the coming of Christ we know who that tree of life typifies. How can we partake of Jesus Christ and then perish forever ?

Only those who do not understand what regeneration is and what eternal life is can say that salvation can be lost once one is saved. But eternal ife is a gift from God that can never be lost and never be annulled.

This is why the one saved can live before God. The history of Christ coming, dying, and resurrecting can never be wiped out forever. Through Christ's act grace has been bestowed upon all those who believe into Him. The relationship between the saved and God is so strong that no power in the universe can separate the saved from their "Father".

Even if God Himself were unhappy about the relationship He cannot annul it. We cannot be unborn of God. And as sure as Adam would have lived eternally so the believer having received Christ as divine life will live in Him eternally.

Originally posted by Rajk999
[b]Check out the thread 'Ignorance is Dangerous'[/b]

He is dangerous

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Concerning God's righteousness being manifested in Christ's salvation (Romans 3:21,22) and the righteousness and justice are the foundation of God's throne (Psalm 89:14):

We can boldly tell God "If You don't deal with me according to Your righteousness, Your throne will be shaken. The important issue is not whether I shall be saved or perish; it is whether You will allow the foundation of Your throne to be shaken.

God for me to perish is a secondary matter. The primary matter is the righteous foundation of Your throne. God, I remind you of Your righteousness. Christ has died for my sins and Christ is now at Your right hand as proof that You have received His payment for all of my debts. According to Your righteousness You have no choice except to save me.

Christ has died. You have accepted His death and have resurrected Him from the dead, and now You are legally bound to forgive me. No matter what my condition is You are bound to forgive me."

This is the attitude the Christian should have based on the fact that God is FAITHFUL and RIGHTEOUS to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9) .