13 May 13
Originally posted by RJHindsEven Job, in the depths of his enduring the tests of Satan, denounced man's vanity. This is the true message of Job.
The words of the Prophecy is Greek. So I am not adding to it or subtracting from it, as you seem to be implying. I am simply correctly dividing the words of prophecy and giving a correct interpretation.
The Instructor
13 May 13
Originally posted by RJHinds"by which we know that it is the last hour..."
You don't read very well. Here is that part of what John said again, [b]"the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour...
(1 John 2:18 NKJV)
Notice that my quote is from the NKJV that distinguishes between the Antichrist and the many antichrists. NKJV stands for New King James Version. ...[text shortened]... one comes to the Father, but through the Son and the Muslim god has no son.
The Instructor[/b]
Sounds like what I just told you. Most of this work of the antichrists (small a) is in the last hour, during the Tribulation, man's last chance to choose God or Satan. Most choose... poorly.
The NKJV is not as bad as some translations, but it is still a "dumbed-down" version of the KJV.
You still do not give credit where it is due... to God. You do not know the exact timetable of the time of Judgement after the return of Christ. Yes, no one comes to the Father, but through the Son, this is true. But you do not know when all men (those who will come) will come to the Son.
"But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26, KJV
Do you see this? Not some things, or a few things. ALL things are possible with God, yes, even those things that men find impossible.
Trust in God, will you? Let Him deliver on His promises before assuming something is not possible.
Please, remember the teachings about vanity in Job.
13 May 13
Originally posted by RJHindsBut you ARE confusing it.
The words of the Prophecy is Greek. So I am not adding to it or subtracting from it, as you seem to be implying. I am simply correctly dividing the words of prophecy and giving a correct interpretation.
The Instructor
The word you are translating as 'multitude' is the Greek word for number, transliterated as arithmos. According to Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary, this word has TWO definitions.
1. a fixed and definite number
2. an indefinite number, a multitude
Please tell us why you prefer the second definition. Is it because using it further enhances YOUR doctrine, and not God's?
13 May 13
2 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneI have already answered this with the following:
But you ARE confusing it.
The word you are translating as 'multitude' is the Greek word for number, transliterated as arithmos. According to Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary, this word has TWO definitions.
1. a fixed and definite number
2. an indefinite number, a multitude
Please tell us why you prefer the second definition. Is it because using it further enhances YOUR doctrine, and not God's?
The Greek word translated "number" is better translated “Multitude” of a man, because this is not a literal number, as no man has a number in place of a name. All men have real names.
Also the numbers are not derived from the Greek text itself, because those combinations of Greek letters have no meaning in the Greek. The number 666 is derived by using the Greek letters to figure gematria, or the number value of words, but there is no greek word there.
Furthermore, when tanslators attempt to do this, they get different values depending on which manuscript they use.
Some manuscripts are translated as 614, some 646, some 665, so that 666 is just one reading.
The Instuctor
13 May 13
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsWow, a literalist ("the world was made in 6 24-hour days" ) who says "this is not a literal number, as no man has a number in place of a name. All men have real names." Well, guess what, they're not talking about names, they're talking about numbers. Why do you assume John doesn't know what he's talking about? The NUMBER of the beast is the NUMBER of a man. Nowhere here does it say that the NUMBER of the beast is the NAME of a man. The NUMBER of a man. A man. Not many men.
I have already answered this with the following:
[b]The Greek word translated "number" is better translated “Multitude” of a man, because this is not a literal number, as no man has a number in place of a name. All men have real names.
Also the numbers are not derived from the Greek text itself, because those combinations of Greek letters have no mean ...[text shortened]... e translated as 614, some 646, some 665, so that 666 is just one reading.
The Instuctor[/b]
The rest of your post is just number games. The actual number is less important than the fact that the number of the beast is the number of a man. We'll undoubtedly understand more in the last days than we understand now about just what this number is and what it means.
13 May 13
Originally posted by RJHinds666 comes from the Greek letters chi xi stigma
I have already answered this with the following:
[b]The Greek word translated "number" is better translated “Multitude” of a man, because this is not a literal number, as no man has a number in place of a name. All men have real names.
Also the numbers are not derived from the Greek text itself, because those combinations of Greek letters have no mean ...[text shortened]... e translated as 614, some 646, some 665, so that 666 is just one reading.
The Instuctor[/b]
I learnt this from one of your many links.
Pity you don't read them yourself!!!
13 May 13
5 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneNo this is not talking about numbers. It is talking about the multitude of people in the beast Empire that are also the multitude of a man, who we can identify by his mark that identifies the name, but his name does not consist of a number, anymore than any other man's name is a number.
Wow, a literalist ("the world was made in 6 24-hour days" ) who says "this is not a literal number, as no man has a number in place of a name. All men have real names." Well, guess what, they're not talking about names, they're talking about numbers. Why do you assume John doesn't know what he's talking about? The NUMBER of the beast is the NUMBER of a the last days than we understand now about just what this number is and what it means.
The beginning of the last days will begin completely unnoticed by the world, but for those led by the Holy Spirit, it is a day set apart.
“Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.
Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?” says the Lord.
“Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?” says your God."
(Isaiah 66:7-9 NKJV)
The Earth gave birth to the nation of Israel in one day for as soon as Zion, represented by the woman in Revelation 12, gives birth, Satan begins his attempts to destroy her children. The male child represents the Messiah, as well as all her Children, whom Satan tries to destroy. But this is just the beginning of their sorrow, because the Great tribulation is still ahead.
The new nation of Israel was born in a day. On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over a Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved the following proclamation, declaring the establishment of the State of Israel. The new state was recognized that night by the United States.
So the last days are already here.
The Instructor
13 May 13
2 edits
Originally posted by wolfgang59Yes, but apparently you did not read and learn the following that I posted:
666 comes from the Greek letters chi xi stigma
I learnt this from one of your many links.
Pity you don't read them yourself!!!
The numbers are not derived from the Greek text itself, because those combination of Greek letters have no meaning in the Greek. The number 666 is derived by using the Greek letters to figure gematria, or the number value of words, but there is no Greek word there. John just copied what he saw and the scribes made a mistake in thinking they were Greek letters when they copied them.
Furthermore, when translators attempt to do this, they get different values depending on which manuscript they use.
Some manuscripts are translated as 614, some 646, some 665, so that 666 is just one reading.
The Instuctor
13 May 13
Originally posted by RJHindsYou are wrong as usual.
Yes, but apparently you did not read and learn the following that I posted:
[b]The numbers are not derived from the Greek text itself, because those combination of Greek letters have no meaning in the Greek. The number 666 is derived by using the Greek letters to figure gematria, or the number value of words, but there is no Greek word there. John just c ...[text shortened]... are translated as 614, some 646, some 665, so that 666 is just one reading.
The Instuctor[/b]
The original text clearly shows the 3 Greek characters which have
the values 600, 60 and 6 .(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numerals)
They still have these values today and can be seen in Greece in situations
where we might use Roman numerals.
13 May 13
Originally posted by wolfgang59This may be done today, but you will not find this done in any other Greek scripture of the Holy Bible, and that includes the Septuagint, because the actual words for the numbers were used back then, as is domonstrated in other text in the Holy Bible. So I am not wrong. How could I be wrong if the Holy Spirit is teaching me?
You are wrong as usual.
The original text [b]clearly shows the 3 Greek characters which have
the values 600, 60 and 6 .(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numerals)
They still have these values today and can be seen in Greece in situations
where we might use Roman numerals.[/b]
The Instructor
14 May 13
Originally posted by RJHindsYou have an almost 100% track record of being wrong and the only
This may be done today, but you will not find this done in any other Greek scripture of the Holy Bible, and that includes the Septuagint, because the actual words for the numbers were used back then, as is domonstrated in other text in the Holy Bible. So I am not wrong. How could I be wrong if the Holy Spirit is teaching me?
The Instructor
spirit showing you the way is Jack Daniels
14 May 13
Originally posted by RJHindsOh man. You just have to find any excuse you can to knock us and then justify your wondering interest in non Godly phylosophies which the Bible, yes even yours warns against. But them that's who you are and why you lack in even the basic, very basic truths in the Bible.
But Christians are to also rely on the Holy Spirit to teach us spiritual things we can not understand on our own. And I am sure you have heard it said that God works in mysterious ways and not through the Watchtower Society. If you have not heard that, then you have led a sheltered life.
The Instructor
Sad as somewhere in there I think you somehow might love God slightly and his word, but you sure let yourself be distracted by the worlds ungodly teachings...
"You cannot be a part of the world". I just wonder what you actully see or comprehend when you read that?
14 May 13
Originally posted by wolfgang59He really likes to change the Bible to fit his opinions. He does this on every subject and even if it's in clear black and white print, he still does this over and over.
You are wrong as usual.
The original text [b]clearly shows the 3 Greek characters which have
the values 600, 60 and 6 .(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numerals)
They still have these values today and can be seen in Greece in situations
where we might use Roman numerals.[/b]