12 May 13
Originally posted by galveston75Now I did not say he was actually called in scripture "a beast" but he is discribed like a beast. Perhaps you should see a doctor about your spells of amnesia. I quoted the following to you earlier that describes a red dragon in almost the same way as the beast in another chaper of Revelations:
Well you are getting closer bit by bit but Satan is never said the be the beast in the Bible, so stop saying it does.
The only entities that are referred to as "beast" are nations or a rulership of nations.
Stop making this stuff up or what shread of tiny respect you have here, if it even exist at all, is lost.
Why have you not shown a scripture here to show he is indeed called a 'beast"?
Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
Revelation 13:1-4
Now in chapter 12 John saw a great fiery red dragon that is described in the same manner as the above beast that came out of the sea. However, the beast listed above has 10 crowns or diadems on his horns instead of just 7.
And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born...
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(Revelation 12:3-4, 7-9 NKJV)
12 May 13
Originally posted by galveston75You are the one confused. There are many antichrist, as the apostle John pointed out, but there is one that is prophesied to come in the last days and that one is THE ANTICHRIST.
OMG, this just keeps getting weirder and weider.
The antichrist is not a single being or a son of a being but simply someone or something that is against Christ. Satan even has you confused about this...
The Instructor
12 May 13
Originally posted by galveston75Okay, let's follow your example and ask for the scripture that says the Beast is a government or nations. The AntiChrist is indeed a person and when he shows up, you sound like you'll be mightily unprepared.
Well you are getting closer bit by bit but Satan is never said the be the beast in the Bible, so stop saying it does.
The only entities that are referred to as "beast" are nations or a rulership of nations.
Stop making this stuff up or what shread of tiny respect you have here, if it even exist at all, is lost.
Why have you not shown a scripture here to show he is indeed called a 'beast"?
13 May 13
3 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneHumm. All one has to do is read these descriptions in Revelation to see it could not be a single person either physically or spiritually. Especially the 13th chapter. In this and other descriptions it never refers to a person but instead an entity.
Okay, let's follow your example and ask for the scripture that says the Beast is a government or nations. The AntiChrist is indeed a person and when he shows up, you sound like you'll be mightily unprepared.
For example take a look:
13 And it stood still upon the sand of the sea.
And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. 2 Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to [the beast]* its power and its throne and great authority.
Just a comment to consider:
The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible comments: “The first of these beasts [of Re 13] combines in itself the joint characteristics of the four beasts of Daniel’s vision . . . Accordingly, this first beast represents the combined forces of all political rule opposed to God in the world.”—Edited by G. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p. 369.
So again who is the antichrist?
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102001568?q=antichrist&p=par
13 May 13
2 edits
Originally posted by menace71Slain or destroyed. God can do it to anything he sees fit. Since the Bible refers to it as a beast or something beyond us ever destroying or controlling, it is refered to as a living thing to show it's power and might. That could never refer to a person as others here feel it is..
Ok.....The beast could very well be a future world power but is also seems to have personification as it can be slain as we see then the dragon (Satan) cause the beast to come back to life.
Manny
13 May 13
Originally posted by menace71Again it shows that Satan is in charge or controls these different beast or governments just as he offered them to Jesus. If they were not his, he couldn not have done that. And notice Jesus did not correct him as he also knew satan ruled them all.
Ok.....The beast could very well be a future world power but is also seems to have personification as it can be slain as we see then the dragon (Satan) cause the beast to come back to life.
Manny
13 May 13
4 edits
What about Revelation 13:18?
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six." -- Rev. 13:18, KJV
"count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man"
A man. Not a country, or a nation, or a people, or a cabal, or a conspiracy. A man. Sounds pretty clear to me.
What I wonder now is how the JWs twisted this verse in their bible so as to conform to their doctrine?
Edit: Okay, I found it.
"Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six." -- Rev. 13:18, New World Translation
First of all, they use the phrase "a man's number", instead of "the number of a man" to avoid comparisons to "the number of the beast". Secondly, they call it a "wild beast" indicating that it is NOT a man. Finally, they use the phrase "its number is" instead of "his number is" to complete the confusion and make it seem like the beast is not a man. THREE edits to God's word, all to make the verse conform to their doctrine that the AntiChrist is not a man. Sounds like desperation to me.
13 May 13
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75
Humm. All one has to do is read these descriptions in Revelation to see it could not be a single person either physically or spiritually. Especially the 13th chapter. In this and other descriptions it never refers to a person but instead an entity.
For example take a look:
13 And it stood still upon the sand of the sea.
And I saw a wild beast a ...[text shortened]... gain who is the antichrist?
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102001568?q=antichrist&p=par
For example take a look:
13 And it stood still upon the sand of the sea.
And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. 2 Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to [the beast]* its power and its throne and great authority.
Let's take a closer look.
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." -- Rev. 13:1-2, KJV
Six times in these two verses in the KJV it says "his", while in those same six places, the NWT says "its". And twice again with the "wild beast" to differentiate from a beast that might be a man.
No wonder you have this idea that the AntiChrist is not a man, with a bible such as this.
13 May 13
4 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneRevelation 13:18 tells us that the number of the Beast is the Number of a man..
What about Revelation 13:18?
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six." -- Rev. 13:18, KJV
"count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man"
A man. Not a country, or a nation, or a people, or a cabal r doctrine that the AntiChrist is not a man. Sounds like desperation to me.
I have studied a little Greek, but although I am not an expert, it seems to make senses to me as to what other Greek scholars have suggested here in that the Greek word translated "number" is better translated “Multitudes” of a man, because
this is not a literal number, as no man has a number in place of a name. All men have real names.
Also the numbers are not derived from the Greek text itself because those combination of Greek letters have no meaning in the Greek. The number 666 is derived by using the Greek letters to figure gematria, or the number value of words, but there is no greek word there.
Furthermore, when tanslators attempt to do this, they get different values depending on which manuscript they use.
some manuscripts are translated as 614, some 646, some 665, so that 666 is just one reading.
Additionally, the last Greek letter is an accent not a letter. The first Greek letter “chi” looks like two crossed swords.
The next letter in Greek, “xi” is written vertically and is the name of Allah when written horizontally in Arabic as Walid Shoebat has pointed out.
Thus the symbol of the crossed swords, along with the name of Allah is the mark with the final letter more of an accent mark, known as a “sigma score? and not a “sigma” itself.
Thus the symbol of the crossed swords, along with the name of Allah is the mark with the final letter more of an accent mark, known as a “sigma score, and not a “sigma” itself.
The Instructor
13 May 13
5 edits
If the Greek word for number is more accurately translated as multitudes, or the great number/multitude of those who worship the end time beast day and night. And we use the stigma with a literal meaning of “a mark "and if the cross swords means "to conquer" and the other two symbols or letters means "in the name of Allah" then how are we to translate it?
Perhaps the vision that John was attempting to capture was what is known in Arabic as the “Bismallah” (the “Name of Allah&rdquo😉. If we flip the Bismallah (the Name of Allah) diagonally, it is similar to the middle character (xi) of the hand-written Codex Vaticanus, which is believed to be the oldest known Greek manuscript copy, dated circa 350 CE. The line above the xi (under the words “A.D. 350&rdquo😉 is not an underline, but is actually part of the hand-written text.
Crossed swords are commonly used in Islam to denote conquest. Therefore, if we add crossed swords to the left of the middle character (xi), and remember that the stigma on the right has the meaning of “mark", we get crossed swords, in the name of Allah, and the word “mark".
The Instuctor
13 May 13
Originally posted by SuzianneGood questions. But notice Suzianne, it never says "it is a man" but it "has the number of a man" on it.
What about Revelation 13:18?
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six." -- Rev. 13:18, KJV
"count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man"
A man. Not a country, or a nation, or a people, or a cabal ...[text shortened]... r doctrine that the AntiChrist is not a man. Sounds like desperation to me.
Do you see the differance?
I could have a tatoo of a persons name on me but that does not make me that person.
Or wear a Tshirt with some sports stars number on it, but that does not make me that person.
But again nothing in this description of this beast ever refers to it as being a single human. But yet it is of a human sourse and managed by humans as it is simply the governments of the world who satan is controling and using humans to operate.
That's why it is shown to rise up "out of the sea" of this earth. The Bible refers to the "sea" as being humanity, even saying it (humans) are in a state of turmoil in being tossed around like an agitated ocean during a storm with no answers to it's problems, just as we see happening today.
So this beast is the governments of the world that comes from mankind that has challenged God and his rule.
The number 666 is on it to be seen as the scripture explains.
This is simply a number that shows where it is from and what it represents.
As mysterious as most make it and have all these thories about, it is very simple.
In the Bible the number 7 refers to completeness or perfection and is used by God for many reasons. It is a spiritual number.
The number 6 in the Bible is used in connection with man, not God and is not a spiritual number and is used to show mans inperfection and failings in being short or missing the mark of the number 7.
The number 3 or something said 3 times is to show emphasis or seriousness on a subject in he Bible.
With the number 6 being shown 3 times on this beast, it is emphasising this beast is from man or earthly nature, not from God or heavenly.
Believe it or not folks...it is really that simple.
666 shows it is a human number and being emphasised 3 times is to clearly show it's true source and meaning. And that is from imperfect humanity.
This is the beast that will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire which is symbolic of it being destroyed forever and never being allowed to rule mankind again.