@sonship saidYou are a big joke sonship and full of BS. Your doctrine is foolishness and contrary to the bible. Its either you cannot read, or you dont read the bible. You continue to regurgitate the doctrine of men.
Though the angels are servants of Christ and the church, overcoming believers from the church accompany Christ to attack the beast, Antichrist. They have battled God's enemy in their church life on the earth. Therefore attacking Antichrist after rapture is just the CONTINUATION of they and Christ battling the evil forces of Satan.
The Bible says, that the beast and false prophet were destroyed in the lake of fire. Then the Angel of God bound Satan for 1000 yrs so that he cannot deceive the nations. THEN Jesus returns with the saints and rules for the millennial period.
There is no beast,
no Satan no Devil
no false prophet,
no antichrist for you to battle with....
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Revelation 19:20-20:3 KJV)
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Rajk999 has not understood much of anything I wrote, as is usually the case.
Because of misunderstanding and not asking for clarification ever, he is eager to point out what he thinks are problems.
Here are some I will reply to briefly, but hardly for his sake. That has become mostly a lost cause to try to teach Rajk999.
Here is the correct sequence of events:
1. The first resurrection of dead Saints in Christ, along with the living Saints in Christ taken up [what Christians call the rapture] and are priests with Christ
Nothing I wrote contradicts that there is a first resurrection before the millennial kingdom and a second resurrection after it. See Revelation 20:4-6. Please read the verses for yourselves in any decent English translation.
2. Christ's millennial reign begins
3. Satan, the dragon, the Devil .. is bound for 1000 yrs
Nothing I wrote contradicts this.
So why does Rajk999 have some problem?
It could be that he doesn't understand that just because Revelation 20:4 speaks of how these participating in the pre-millennial kingdom resurrection reign with Christ that that means ALL who are resurrected pre-millennial wise reign with Christ.
This COULD be his problem. Perhaps it is someone's else's also. But it is not taught in the Bible that resurrection AUTOMATICALLY means REWARD.
The pre-millennial resurrection will include those saints who are rewarded to reign with Christ and those who will not, but require discipline. This differentiation is NOT covered in Revelation 20 but it IS covered elsewhere in the New Testament.
When the SERVANTS of Jesus come before Him after His return we are taught that some are rewarded and some are disciplined. A contributing factor is how much of the Lord's will did they know and how the responded to that.
"And that slave who knew his master's will and did not prepare to do according to his will, will receive many lashes. But he who did not know, yet did things worthy of stripes, will receive few lashes. But ti everyone to whim much has been given, much will be required from him; and to whom much has been committed, they will ask of him all the more." (Luke 12:46)
Servants of the master here do not represent unbelievers. Unbelievers are not servants of Christ. So this teaching deals with believers - who were committed with varied amounts of cognizant about the will of the Lord. And their discipline is proportional to how much they knew better if they were defective in their Christian service.
Right away you can see that not all are rewarded upon Christ's reckoning with them. And such reckoning is after the rapture / resurrection.
Here we see three servants. Two are rewarded and one is disciplined.
The Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30)
The Parable of the Pounds (Luke 19:11-27)
These are about Christ reckoning with His servants (His saints) upon the initiation of His millennial kingdom following any rapture or resurrection of those for whom the issue of eternal redemption and eternal life has already been decided in the affirmative.
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4. After the 1000 yrs Satan is released
absolutely nothing I have ever written contradicts this.
See Revelation 20:7-10.
5. Satan gathers his armies to battle [THIS IS ARMAGEDDEON]
This is wrong that this describes the battle of Armageddon.
Yes, after Satan is released from his prison of 1,000 years he DOES deceive some of the nations that lived THROUGH the millennial period. But this has nothing to do with the battle of Armageddon which PRECEDED the millennial kingdom.
Concerning this loosing of Satan again after the millennium we are assured that at this defeat he goes not to be bound but to the lake of fire to be tormented for eternity. That is a defeat. But that is not the Battle of Armageddon.
We are only told that fire came down from heaven and burned up his huge post millennial kingdom deceived nations.
"And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison. And will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. Their number is like that of the sand of the sea.
And they went up upon the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; and fire came down out of heaven and devoured them.
And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimestone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:7-10)
The antichrist and the false prophet have already been there burning for a thousand years. They went to the lake of fire in Revelation 19:19-21
"And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gather together to make war with Him who sits on the horse and with His army.
And the beast was seized and with him the false prophet, who in his presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire, which burns with brimstone.
And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeds out of the mouth of Him who sits on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh." (Rev. 19:19-21)
The next chapter is all about the millennial kingdom during which time Satan is not in the lake of fire but bound in the prison of the abyss. So the war and the defeat of Antichrist at Armageddon is different from the war and defeat of Satan one thousand years latter when he is loosed to once more to deceive the nations many of which were born during the millennial kingdom. They must be tested as to whether they want Christ to continue to reign or Satan to be released and again spread lies to deceive those nations.
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I was reading some of your discussion with Suzi Son, where do you feel that Enoch went to (this isn’t a bait I’m serious) and do you view the book of Enoch with any credence ?
I do not know for sure where Enoch was taken.
I have never read the Book of Enoch. I would caution that the main thing the canon of inspired Scripture tells us is that "Enoch walked with God." That is mostly what God wants us to know about him. And that instead of physically dying God took him to Himself alive. So intent is God on rewarding those in harmony with His will.
The worldly mind has a tendency to make up other things about a little known person important. Many times it is important according to worldly philosophy. Beware of all kinds of ancient or modern tales trying to say Enoch did this or Enoch did that.
Lately I have heard Internet rumors that Enoch was involved in the pyramids or some other great worldly enterprise. Maybe they think Enoch knew something about UFOs.
God says "Enoch walked with God". And that is what is important according to the priorities of Almighty God. He had a man exceptional during those days because he walked with God. And God rewarded him by removing him from a world about to be destroyed in judgment.
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Having said that, I will add that some book authored by Enoch or named for him was quoted in the book of Jude. Sometimes in the Bible a reference or quotation is made about a non-canonical book. Paul quoted pagan poets. And the book of "The Wars of Yahweh" was referenced. This does not mean that because they were once referenced that the books themselves were inspired to be in the canon of the Bible.
All the poetry of the pagan poet does not belong in the Bible simply because Paul quoted one line.
So here is the NT reference to some book related to Enoch from antiquity.
"And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied also of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His saints to execute judgment against all and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly works which they have done in ungodliness, and concerning all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken." (Jude 14)
I am not completely certain how much is quotation. But as you can see the word of God draws attention to Enoch apparently exposing by preaching or something the rampant unglodly things done,
ungodly things said,
ungodliness,
ungodly sinners,
ungodly works, etc. etc.
Enoch walked with God and Enoch prophesied that the Lord God was coming accompanied by a myriad of His saints to execute judgment upon an ungodly culture.
PERSONALLY, I would not spend a lot of time AWAY from the BIBLE to go study the Book of Enoch. Maybe, someday I will. I barely have enough time now to plunge into all the unsearchable riches of the exhaustless treasures concerning Jesus Christ.
Maybe he was taken to heaven. Maybe somewhere else. The important point is that he was taken because of his godly walk - he walked with God.
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I briefly wrote this:
Though the angels are servants of Christ and the church, overcoming believers from the church accompany Christ to attack the beast, Antichrist. They have battled God's enemy in their church life on the earth. Therefore attacking Antichrist after rapture is just the CONTINUATION of they and Christ battling the evil forces of Satan.
To this Rajk999 wrote what he thinks is a correction.
Actually he misunderstood what I meant. And I think I know where.
But here is what he said to supposedly correct me:
The Bible says, that the beast and false prophet were destroyed in the lake of fire. Then the Angel of God bound Satan for 1000 yrs so that he cannot deceive the nations. THEN Jesus returns with the saints and rules for the millennial period.
There is no beast,
no Satan no Devil
no false prophet,
no antichrist for you to battle with....
I suppose he misunderstands probably this sentence which I could have made more clear.
They have battled God's enemy in their church life on the earth. Therefore attacking Antichrist after rapture is just the CONTINUATION of they and Christ battling the evil forces of Satan.
What is meant here is that throughout their lives in the church age overcomers have been in spiritual battle with their adversary the Devil. During the church age thier living unto Jesus has been a battle in which they have stood firm with the whole armor of God against the stratagems of the devil as it says in Ephesians 6.
They have not fought with the Devil physically. They have fought with him spiritually by being consecrated to Jesus Christ.
So when they are raptured close to the close of the age they will come back and battle along with Christ their Leader with the man of sin, the Antichrist physically. Perhaps their way of fighting will be to command the angels. For sure by their praising and shouting victory in Christ they and Christ overcome the foes at Armageddon.
This is what I meant by
"They have battled God's enemy in their church life on the earth. Therefore attacking Antichrist after rapture is just the CONTINUATION of they and Christ battling the evil forces of Satan.
It has nothing to do with fighting Satan during the millennial kingdom.
IT has nothing to do with fighting the Antichrist or the false prophet during the 1,000 years. These two are in the lake of fire. And Satan is bound for the duration of the millennial kingdom.
He will be loosed afterwards. But that is not Armageddon. And all we are told is that fire came down from heaven to be the final end of Satan's LAST rebellion and deceiving.
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Above in this thread I wrote to medulleh that if there is no rapture there will be no great tribulation and no antichrist/
Stay tuned. Because in a post soon to be written we will take the cause and effects of the events in Revelation 12 and walking BACKWARDS I will prove that -
The rapture of a remnant of overcoming saints is the CAUSE of the great tribulation to commence. No one, I think, will be able to argue otherwise.
14 Sep 21
@sonship saidWhat a lame cover up and a bunch of lies. You really are dishonest and lacking in integrity. Typical shameless Christian.
I briefly wrote this:
Though the angels are servants of Christ and the church, overcoming believers from the church accompany Christ to attack the beast, Antichrist. They have battled God's enemy in their church life on the earth. Therefore attacking Antichrist after rapture is just the CONTINUATION of they and Christ battling the evil forces of Satan.
To ...[text shortened]... told is that fire came down from heaven to be the final end of Satan's LAST rebellion and deceiving.
@sonship saidSame father, different mothers. Ishmael was the firstborn, Isaac the child of a promise.
I say the contempt Rajk999 displays for the gospel I present is reminiscent to the mocking that Ishmael had for Isaac.
You’re situation in this forum is nothing like Isaac’s struggle. I also notice that you are fond of comparing yourself to Jesus when you get challenged. It’s not an endearing trait.
@sonship said.More pre-prepared, copy/pasted posts (probably with content lifted from elsewhere) with only 2 minutes between posting time stamps.
Yes, after Satan is released from his prison of 1,000 years he DOES deceive some of Christ to continue to reign or Satan to be released and again spread lies to deceive those nations.
Not good is it.
14 Sep 21
@velns saidThis is why we don’t get a few punchy lines but a whole sermon. He has got stuff to say but it’s made such heavy going because it is unnecessarily wordy.
More pre-prepared, copy/pasted posts (probably with content lifted from elsewhere) with only 2 minutes between posting time stamps.
Not good is it.
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@medullah
Compared to the simple question I asked you, you seem very wordy.
Are you or are you NOT willing to recognize that Enoch conceivably has something to speak to us about rapture?
I suggested we could START there since you said this rapture stuff was all unbiblical.
Forgive me if you answered and I didn't notice. It is not harassments. I thought rather than evade the question you'd give a simple Yes or No.