03 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidWhatever perspectives humans may happen to attribute to creator entities are laid out in the plethora of manmade theologies across cultures and down through history.
From whose perspective, ours or His?
Virtually all of them derive their reasoning from an assertion along the lines of "There must be more to life than this..." and they recoil from the idea of a creator entity creating beings with "only" a finite opportunity to experience life.
I am simply questioning the assumption behind this perspective.
What's wrong with the idea of a creator entity creating beings with finite lives?
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03 Jan 22
@fmf saidGod always wanted fellowship with His creation and to live with His creation and did so for a brief period of time before Adam and Eve rebelled against Him. Then the fellowship was broken.
Whatever perspectives humans may happen to attribute to creator entities are laid out in the plethora of manmade theologies across cultures and down through history.
Virtually all of them derive their reasoning from an assertion along the lines of "There must be more to life than this..." and they recoil from the idea of a creator entity creating beings with "only" a finite o ...[text shortened]... is perspective.
What's wrong with the idea of a creator entity creating beings with finite lives?
God has been about restoring that pre-Fall fellowship ever since - first through a sacrificial system to atone for sins, which had to be repeated on a regular basis, and then through the one-time perfect sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ.
So God wants fellowship with His creation and always has. And after He establishes the new heaven and new earth, He and believers will have the fellowship that briefly existed before the Fall.
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
(Revelation 21:1-5)
God can’t have fellowship with man if man ceases to exist after he dies a biological death - at least (imo) not the fellowship God had with man before the fall and will have with man after the new heaven and earth are created.
I think man senses there is something after death and just wants to avoid hell. But they’re confused about how to do it and think they can talk their way into Heaven (kind of an “I’ll deal with it when it happens” approach.)
I think everyone would rather cease to exist than go to hell so in that sense they may prefer finite lives. But the Holy Bible says God is love and wants to live with and among His creation (as Jesus Christ did for three years) so believers undoubtedly are looking forward to that and would prefer that over a finite life.
Then there’s the sense of justice.
Does it seem just that a serial killer who was never caught dies at an old age and a 6-year-old child dies of cancer, and neither experiences an afterlife (both their lives are finite and their existence ends at biological death.)
Does that seem fair?
@pb1022 saidI don't see how simply reciting narratives from ancient Hebrew mythology or from Christian literature addresses my question head-on.
God always wanted fellowship with His creation and to live with His creation and did so for a brief period of time before Adam and Eve rebelled against Him. Then the fellowship was broken.
God has been about restoring that pre-Fall fellowship ever since - first through a sacrificial system to atone for sins, which had to be repeated on a regular basis, and then through the ...[text shortened]... (both their lives are finite and their existence ends at biological death.)
Does that seem fair?
03 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidIf an aspiration to be immortal ~ or the idea that some will not be immortal ~ somehow creates for you a "sense of justice", now, while you are here living on Earth, then good for you. I personally don't see how injustices here on Earth are addressed by taking some sort of comfort in speculation about supernatural punishment after death.
Then there’s the sense of justice.
Does it seem just that a serial killer who was never caught dies at an old age and a 6-year-old child dies of cancer, and neither experiences an afterlife (both their lives are finite and their existence ends at biological death.)
Does that seem fair?
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03 Jan 22
@fmf saidYou asked a question and I answered it - with a passage from Revelation to back up my point of view. None of my answer came from “Christian literature.” I wouldn’t waste my time researching an answer to a question posed by an anonymous person on a chess website - especially one as rude and classless as you.
I don't see how simply reciting narratives from ancient Hebrew mythology or from Christian literature addresses my question head-on.
If you don’t like my answer too bad - it wasn’t addressed to you anyway. It was addressed to anyone with a sincere interest in the subject who may wish to offer his or her own thoughts. You’re simply the doorman.
03 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidSerial killers not getting caught and 6-year-olds getting cancer: neither seems "just" to me. But according to several Christians who have posted here in the past, after the 6-year-old dies of cancer, it will be tortured in burning flames for eternity if she did not believe she was "saved" by Jesus, and the serial killer [who was never caught] sincerely accepts "Jesus as his personal saviour" just before he dies at an old age, then he supposedly experiences a more favourable afterlife.
Does it seem just that a serial killer who was never caught dies at an old age and a 6-year-old child dies of cancer, and neither experiences an afterlife (both their lives are finite and their existence ends at biological death.)
Does that seem fair?
03 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidThe question "What's the matter with the idea of a creator entity creating beings with a finite opportunity to experience life?" is simply not answered - or even addressed - by making assertions about how your particular God figure/creator entity does NOT create beings with a finite opportunity to experience life.
You asked a question and I answered it - with a passage from Revelation to back up my point of view. None of my answer came from “Christian literature.” I wouldn’t waste my time researching an answer to a question posed by an anonymous person on a chess website - especially one as rude and classless as you.
If you don’t like my answer too bad - it wasn’t addressed to you an ...[text shortened]... re interest in the subject who may wish to offer his or her own thoughts. You’re simply the doorman.
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03 Jan 22
@fmf saidSo how do you address the injustice of a serial killer who goes uncaptured and lives a long life and a 6-year-old sweet kid who dies of cancer?
If an aspiration to be immortal ~ or the idea that some will not be immortal ~ somehow creates for you a "sense of justice", now, while you are here living on Earth, then good for you. I personally don't see how injustices here on Earth are addressed by taking some sort of comfort in speculation about supernatural punishment after death.
Or is that kind of injustice hunky dory with you?
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03 Jan 22
@fmf saidIt certainly was addressed.
The question "What's the matter with the idea of a creator entity creating beings with a finite opportunity to experience life?" is simply not answered - or even addressed - by making assertions about how your particular God figure/creator entity does NOT create beings with a finite opportunity to experience life.
God can’t have fellowship with man as He had before the Fall if man ceases to exist after his biological death. And God wants to live with and among His creation as that passage I quoted from Revelation demonstrates.
You seriously can’t see that?