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@fmf saidSo to be clear, this is all conjecture, you have no evidence to back any of these claims up?
The texts probably resulted from decades of 'chinese whispers' passed on by all manner of people and groups, and sub-groups, all in many respects in competition with each other; dozens of other supposedly 'eye witness accounts' rejected; nothing finalized until literally hundreds of years later, when corporate Christianity had finally finessed its fastidiously assembled text.
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@fmf saidAnd what explains His disciples’ change in behavior from immediately after His crucifixion, when they were hiding out in fear of the Pharisees, to after His Resurrection, when they refused to stop preaching in Jesus Christ’s name despite beatings and imprisonment?
I think he was probably a maverick rabbi who attracted a following because of his relatively progressive brand of Judaism but who was executed by the Romans for sedition.
Why go through all the persecution and hassle and ultimately be executed for a maverick rabbi?
How do you explain the empty tomb? All the Messianic prophecies that Jesus fulfilled?
@pb1022 saidI used the word "probably" for a reason. This perspective works for me. It's OK if it doesn't work for you.
So to be clear, this is all conjecture, you have no evidence to back any of these claims up?
I think conjecture about supernatural beings and phenomena, or about the veracity of the writings that make claims based on that conjecture, are an understandable part of human nature ~ by which I mean both belief and a lack of belief.
As I said, human beings in cultures everywhere, right down through human history, poring over religious literature, dreaming and hoping that they might have everlasting life: it's a ubiquitous and everpresent feature of the human condition.
@pb1022 saidAs a non-Christian, I don't feel any need to rummage through what was written about these supposed events decades after they happened.
And what explains His disciples’ change in behavior from immediately after His crucifixion, when they were hiding out in fear of the Pharisees, to after His Resurrection, when they refused to stop preaching in Jesus Christ’s name despite beatings and imprisonment?
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02 Jan 22
@fmf saidWhy do you think humans have that hope of eternity? Where does it come from?
I used the word "probably" for a reason. This perspective works for me. It's OK if it doesn't work for you.
I think conjecture about supernatural beings and phenomena, or about the veracity of the writings that make claims based on that conjecture, are an understandable part of human nature ~ by which I mean both belief and a lack of belief.
As I said, human beings in cul ...[text shortened]... they might have everlasting life: it's a ubiquitous and everpresent feature of the human condition.
Where does the concept of infinity come from? Is infinity and eternity concepts that human beings could have learned on their own?
@pb1022 saidPeople have been persecuted and even killed for being adherents to all manner of "revealed" religions since way back when. To tie this back to the OP, this persecution and killing, and groups of people enduring it, is - historically - part and parcel of the human condition.
Why go through all the persecution and hassle and ultimately be executed for a maverick rabbi?
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02 Jan 22
@fmf saidWell they totally missed Isaiah 53, and some prophecies, such as the date of Jesus Christ’s crucifixion in the book of Daniel, really can’t be shoehorned in after the fact.
I imagine the writers of the NT were aware of the supposed "prophecies" and incorporated them when they created the texts that publicized and promoted the Jesus story/religion.
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02 Jan 22
@fmf saidBut Jesus Christ’s disciples didn’t go to their deaths for a sincere belief they could have been mistaken about. That’s not uncommon in religion.
People have been persecuted and even killed for being adherents to all manner of "revealed" religions since way back when. To tie this back to the OP, this persecution and killing, and groups of people enduring it, is - historically - part and parcel of the human condition.
Jesus Christ’s disciples went to their deaths for refusing to deny what they saw with their own eyes (the Resurrected Christ.)
@pb1022 saidIt is enabled by our cognitive capacity to contemplate our existence and the meaning of our lives. I imagine that even the most intelligent of animals do not have a concept of eternity because, although they may have instincts that make them avoid death, they probably don't contemplate the idea that life is finite. Maybe the hope that life is everlasting is, in many humans, a kind of instinct or gut feeling.
Why do you think humans have that hope of eternity? Where does it come from?
@pb1022 saidI don't see why not ~ given how our cognitive abilities provide a basis for our astounding capacity for and/or contribution to abstract interaction and imagination. Whether this human consciousness was created by some kind of supernatural entity, that's a matter for speculation.
Is infinity and eternity concepts that human beings could have learned on their own?
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02 Jan 22
@fmf saidI don’t know. As far as I can tell, infinity and eternity are concepts that we have no basis upon which to comprehend them. There’s nothing in our experience in the natural world that would lead us to eternity or infinity. Imagination is all well and good but what we imagine usually has a springboard that ties it to something in our experience or environment. I don’t see that with infinity and eternity.
I don't see why not ~ given how our cognitive abilities provide a basis for our astounding capacity for and/or contribution to abstract interaction and imagination. Whether this human consciousness was created by some kind of supernatural entity, that's a matter for speculation.
You take numbers and say, “Well you can always add one more number.” But always being able to add another number and realizing that could literally go on forever are two different things. You literally have to understand forever (infinity or eternity) before you can say, “Well I can just keep adding numbers forever.”