Illusions opinions reality

@kellyjay said
So if you twist my words again for that, you can accuse me of being anything you want, you'll never get a response from me again on any topic for any reason or cause

In the matter of 'not mentioning harm coming to one's family in an an analogy', the ball is completely in your court.

@fmf said
I have made no comments about your wife and kids. I never have. I never will.

I trust we are both very clear on that topic than?

@kellyjay said
Going through the discussion here, personal perspectives were shown to be flawed even looking at the simple things like the horizonal and vertical so we need plumb lines and levels, looking for direction we have gone over this we need a compass, looking at weights we need scales, we are not the best judges even in the physical world to perceive what is and isn't true.

I have never suggested that the personal perspectives you and I share might not be flawed. Your compass and your weights and scales are all a subjective synthesis of all the things you have learned and experiences, squeezed through the unique valve of your personhood and character.

@kellyjay said
I trust we are both very clear on that topic than?

The ball is in your court, KellyJay. If you cease and desist with stuff about my wife and kids, we are good.

@kellyjay said
If we have nothing that helps us see truth in the world where morals are concern that anyone can hang their opinions upon air anywhere.

I cannot imagine how anyone could have "nothing that helps them see 'truth' in the world where morals are concerned". Everybody's moral compass is "helped" [formed, applied, modified] by a whole range of stimuli and events and lessons learned.

@fmf said
The ball is in your court, KellyJay. If you cease and desist with stuff about my wife and kids, we are good.

Okay, I was hoping we could put this behind us but I guess not. I never mentioned your wife and kids. If you are going to continue with this, from here on out say what you will.

@kellyjay said
I believe life has meaning, but where is it, if we can find it if nothing but opinions, if that is all we have?

I also believe that my life has meaning. If, in your opinion, that meaning - and direction - and "help" with the moral soundness of your decisions and behaviour - comes from your religion, then that is good.

@kellyjay said
I never mentioned your wife and kids.

I said this:

The "fear of reprisal" thing doesn't work on people who don't believe that there is anything real to justify or instil the "fear". That's why the threats of being 'tormented in burning flames for eternity' are morally incoherent with regard to non-Christians and other non-believers. There is no threat of "eternal torment" or "love" of a supernatural being that's motivating me to be a morally sound person.

And your reply was:

Some body in your home starts doing damage to you, your family, your property even from within your family you think consequences are not justified?

And I say, cut it out. And I undertake not to mention your home or your family or people doing damage to them in order to make a supposed 'debating point'. Mentioning "damage" to my family is not going to persuade me that "eternal torment" is morally sound, so leave them out of it. I will likewise leave your family out of it.

@kellyjay said
You don't speak for me.

In so far as we can both only speculate and act upon our personal subjective beliefs when it comes to our perception of reality and truth when they involve supernatural matters, yes, I do speak for us both.

@fmf said
@KellyJay

Kudos.

Spoken too soon, perhaps.

@kellyjay said
What truth, you have only opinions don't you?

Two contradictory opinions can’t both be true regardless of how firmly they are believed to be true. If you are of the opinion that God exists and FMF is of the opinion that He doesn’t exist, one of your opinions is wrong and one of them is true they can’t both be true.

@dj2becker said
Two contradictory opinions can’t both be true regardless of how firmly they are believed to be true. If you are of the opinion that God exists and FMF is of the opinion that He doesn’t exist, one of your opinions is wrong and one of them is true they can’t both be true.

Perhaps God only exists for KellyJay?

@dj2becker said
Two contradictory opinions can’t both be true regardless of how firmly they are believed to be true. If you are of the opinion that God exists and FMF is of the opinion that He doesn’t exist, one of your opinions is wrong and one of them is true they can’t both be true.

You are forgetting, KellyJay doesn’t express his “opinions” when he posts he posts truth. It is just coincidental that the truth which he posts happens to be the same as the opinions which holds but doesn’t post.

@wolfgang59 said
Perhaps God only exists for KellyJay?

If God does in fact exist his existence is not dependent on FMF believing it.

@wolfgang59 said
Perhaps God only exists for KellyJay?

Well that is the debate isn't it? If its all opinions than nothing any of us say is of any real consequence to anyone else; however, if there is a truth we are pointing to that has real world consequences for everyone that truth not our opinion of it will come crashing down on everyone!