Illusions opinions reality

@fmf said
I think KellyJay has stopped talking to me for a while.

We were right in the middle of a long running discussion and now he has bailed out. His moral compass won't let him talk to me about moral compasses.

Sorry, I seem to have hogged this conversation.

But mine has now run its course. There is not much more that I can contribute.

KJ, fmf is all yours.

@caljust said
Sorry, I seem to have hogged this conversation.

But mine has now run its course. There is not much more that I can contribute.

KJ, fmf is all yours.

Is truth exclusive? Not asking about opinions, is truth exclusive? Then I will stop asking you questions unless you continue.

@kellyjay said
Is truth exclusive? Not asking about opinions, is truth exclusive? Then I will stop asking you questions unless you continue.

KellyJay.

How did you know what was morally right and wrong before you were a Christian?

@fmf said
I think KellyJay has stopped talking to me for a while. He tried to use the notion of me 'not supporting punishment for people harming my family, in my home', in an unbelievably crass analogy for my objection to eternal torture for a lack of belief in Jesus [which I don't believe is real but I object to it on the grounds of it being morally incoherent].

KellyJay is so peculi ...[text shortened]... cussion and now he has bailed out. His moral compass won't let him talk to me about moral compasses.

It’s not like you’ve ever stopped talking to anyone...

@kellyjay said
Is truth exclusive? Not asking about opinions, is truth exclusive? Then I will stop asking you questions unless you continue.

Let me try and answer it this way.......

There was another thread about multiple universes, and who believes in them. I think it was sonhouse who wrote that there are specific models which indicate the possibility for multiverses. Also Stephen Hawking stated that the cosmic and quantum equations predicated that there should be multiple universes.

So the question you may ask is what is the actual reality? Do they exist or not? Or, in your words, "What is the truth?"

My personal attitude concerning this situatin is "so what?" How does it affect me? Does it actually matter for my everyday life whether there is or isn't a MV? Or, would I act any different if I knew for sure one way or the other?

Do you see where I am going here?

The quest for truth is elusive, if not exclusive. Whatever is REALITY out there, and if it is absolute, and if it is totally exclusive, it can only be touched, found or assimilated with my senses. (I think I have said this now four or five times, and I don't think you have grasped it).

Just as I will never be able to make contact with another universe (in fact, not even another galaxy) I will never be able to comprehend ABSOLUTE TRUTH. It will always be bigger than I am.

If we say that (in your words) the elephant in my previous post is the exclusive truth that exists, then it is also clear that all of us look at this elephant from different angles and we come to different conclusions. Yet the elephant is still standing there! He exists, and is exclusive, but we touch him with our subjective senses.

Does this now make sense to you? I cannot explain it any better.

@caljust said
Let me try and answer it this way.......

There was another thread about multiple universes, and who believes in them. I think it was sonhouse who wrote that there are specific models which indicate the possibility for multiverses. Also Stephen Hawking stated that the cosmic and quantum equations predicated that there should be multiple universes.

So the question you may ...[text shortened]... him with our subjective senses.

Does this now make sense to you? I cannot explain it any better.

I believe I see your point, but believe the truth is actively seeking us. Which is different than just us fumbling around looking for it. (My words, not yours or anyone else’s)

@kellyjay said
I believe I see your point, but believe the truth is actively seeking us. Which is different than just us fumbling around looking for it. (My words, not yours or anyone else’s)

In what way exactly is truth actively seeking us?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
In what way exactly is truth actively seeking us?

God seeking man

@kellyjay said
God seeking man

Which God?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Which God?

Pay attention you will find out!

@kellyjay said
I believe I see your point, but believe the truth is actively seeking us. Which is different than just us fumbling around looking for it. (My words, not yours or anyone else’s)

No matter how you convolute it, "the truth" in this matter is a matter for speculation and, ultimately, your certainty and vehemence about it is merely a varnish applied to your personal opinion.

@kellyjay said
Pay attention you will find out!

This kind of trite stuff brings BigDiggProblem's first post on the "Mans wisdom vs God's wisdom?" thread to mind.

@kellyjay said
I believe I see your point, but believe the truth is actively seeking us. Which is different than just us fumbling around looking for it. (My words, not yours or anyone else’s)

You may be right here.

Paul's Damascus Road experience is a case in point from a Christian pov.

My son relates a similar experience from a Buddhist pov.

I guess if one cultivates a sense of spiritual awareness one will be more receptive when such things come across one's way.

Again, in the Christian tradition you have the Armenianism/Calvinism debate: does God seek me first, or do I have to seek God first to let himself be found?

As you well know, you will find proof for both in the Bible.

@kellyjay said
Pay attention you will find out!

Third time of asking...

How did you know what was morally right and wrong before you were a Christian?

@fmf said
This kind of trite stuff brings BigDiggProblem's first post on the "Mans wisdom vs God's wisdom?" thread to mind.

For those not following both threads:

@BiggDogProblem said:
Even if I am wrong, and it turns out there IS a God, I can't help but wonder humans can be sure that the voice inside their heads is actually God's.

It seems that this God would do better by NOT relying on humans to spread his message to other humans. That is asking for trouble.