Hating someone you can see.

Hating someone you can see.

Spirituality

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Walk your Faith

USA

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It isn't a matter of translation:

1 John 4:20
New International Version
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

New Living Translation
If someone says, “I love God,” but hates a fellow believer, that person is a liar; for if we don’t love people we can see, how can we love God, whom we cannot see?

English Standard Version
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Berean Standard Bible
If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Berean Literal Bible
If anyone should say, "I love God," and should hate his brother, he is a liar. For the one not loving his brother, whom he has seen, is not able to love God, whom he has not seen.

King James Bible
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

New King James Version
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

New American Standard Bible
If someone says, “I love God,” and yet he hates his brother or sister, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother and sister whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

NASB 1995
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

NASB 1977
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Legacy Standard Bible
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Amplified Bible
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates (works against) his [Christian] brother he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Christian Standard Bible
If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet hates his brother or sister, he is a liar. For the person who does not love his brother or sister whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For the person who does not love his brother he has seen cannot love the God he has not seen.

American Standard Version
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, cannot love God whom he hath not seen.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But if a man will say, “I love God”, and he hates his brother, he is lying; for he who does not love his brother who is visible, how is it possible for him to love God who is invisible?

Contemporary English Version
But if we say we love God and don't love each other, we are liars. We cannot see God. So how can we love God, if we don't love the people we can see?

Douay-Rheims Bible
If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not?

English Revised Version
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, cannot love God whom he hath not seen.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Whoever says, "I love God," but hates another believer is a liar. People who don't love other believers, whom they have seen, can't love God, whom they have not seen.

Good News Translation
If we say we love God, but hate others, we are liars. For we cannot love God, whom we have not seen, if we do not love others, whom we have seen.

International Standard Version
Whoever says, "I love God," but hates his brother is a liar. The one who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love the God whom he has not seen.

Literal Standard Version
if anyone may say, “I love God,” and may hate his brother, he is a liar; for he who is not loving his brother whom he has seen, how is he able to love God whom he has not seen?

Majority Standard Bible
If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, how can he love God, whom he has not seen?

New American Bible
If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

NET Bible
If anyone says "I love God" and yet hates his fellow Christian, he is a liar, because the one who does not love his fellow Christian whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

New Revised Standard Version
Those who say, “I love God,” and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen.

New Heart English Bible
If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Webster's Bible Translation
If a man sayeth, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he hath seen, how can he love God, whom he hath not seen?

Weymouth New Testament
If any one says that he loves God, while he hates his brother man, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother man whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

World English Bible
If a man says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who doesn’t love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

Young's Literal Translation
if any one may say -- 'I love God,' and his brother he may hate, a liar he is; for he who is not loving his brother whom he hath seen, God -- whom he hath not seen -- how is he able to love?

Kali

PenTesting

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251102
37d

@kellyjay said
It isn't a matter of translation:

1 John 4:20
New International Version
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

New Living Translation
If someone says, “I love God,” but hates a fellow believer, that person is a liar; for if ...[text shortened]... is not loving his brother whom he hath seen, God -- whom he hath not seen -- how is he able to love?
There are several kinds of love in the bible ..
- the kind between man and woman
- the kind between family members
- the kind between friends aka brotherly love
- the kind God has for mankind. [Agape]

This passage in John refers to agape, which is the greatest kind. Paul in 1 Cor 13 has a very detailed description of agape but the word is translated 'charity'.

Charitable love = Agape = Gods love. The bottom line is that Jesus does not expect people to exhibit agape love all the time. Proof of that is when Jesus asked Peter if he loved him [apage], Peter replied yes but he uses brotherly love. Here it is:

So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. (John 21:15-17 KJV)

The love Jesus referred to is 'agape'. Peter replied with 'phileo'. Peter probably was not capable of agape or maybe he did not know of it. Either way you appear to be misinterpreting John. Hatred is an emotion which God himself possesses. It would be an unreasonable God to expect his creation to dispense with the 'hatred' which he created.

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@rajk999 said
There are several kinds of love in the bible ..
- the kind between man and woman
- the kind between family members
- the kind between friends aka brotherly love
- the kind God has for mankind. [Agape]

This passage in John refers to agape, which is the greatest kind. Paul in 1 Cor 13 has a very detailed description of agape but the word is translated 'charity'.

Cha ...[text shortened]... would be an unreasonable God to expect his creation to dispense with the 'hatred' which he created.
KJ is yet another Evangelical self-proclaimed 'expert' on Scripture, with no knowledge of classical languages, exegesis, or theology.



😆

Fighting for men’s

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@kellyjay said
It isn't a matter of translation:

1 John 4:20
New International Version
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

New Living Translation
If someone says, “I love God,” but hates a fellow believer, that person is a liar; for if ...[text shortened]... is not loving his brother whom he hath seen, God -- whom he hath not seen -- how is he able to love?
Have you personally be admonished for this by your pastor or something like that?

Kali

PenTesting

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1 edit

@moonbus said
KJ is yet another Evangelical self-proclaimed 'expert' on Scripture, with no knowledge of classical languages, exegesis, or theology.



😆
Yes, and he often takes these passages literally without checking into the original Greek words used. These days that is very easy to do. It took me a few seconds to pull up that information.

Anyway here is a further complication to KJs interpretation. Jesus said that you need to hate [the same Greek word [miseo] used in the John passage] your parents, spouse, brothers, sisters, and yourself, otherwise you cannot follow him.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26 KJV)

Careful interpretation and some common sense is required here. This is why many churches get derailed. They are not after the truth. Instead they seek to use the bible to justify their doctrine.

Walk your Faith

USA

Joined
24 May 04
Moves
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36d

@rajk999 said
There are several kinds of love in the bible ..
- the kind between man and woman
- the kind between family members
- the kind between friends aka brotherly love
- the kind God has for mankind. [Agape]

This passage in John refers to agape, which is the greatest kind. Paul in 1 Cor 13 has a very detailed description of agape but the word is translated 'charity'.

Cha ...[text shortened]... would be an unreasonable God to expect his creation to dispense with the 'hatred' which he created.
All I did was quote a verse in several translations you are the one giving an interpretation not me; moreover, this is a letter from John.

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@kellyjay said
All I did was quote a verse in several translations you are the one giving an interpretation not me; moreover, this is a letter from John.
So you don’t have an interpretation?

Kali

PenTesting

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@kellyjay said
All I did was quote a verse in several translations you are the one giving an interpretation not me; moreover, this is a letter from John.
Well here again you are ignoring all the discussions we have had in the last 15 years or more. You have quoted this same verse many many times using it to show that people who disagree with you, hate you and therefore are condemned by God.

Walk your Faith

USA

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@rajk999 said
Well here again you are ignoring all the discussions we have had in the last 15 years or more. You have quoted this same verse many many times using it to show that people who disagree with you, hate you and therefore are condemned by God.
Where in the world did you see me say this was about people hating me? You sure do insert meaning into text that is not there, can’t you just read what is there without looking for a hidden meaning?

Here we go again speaks more about you!

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@kellyjay said
All I did was quote a verse in several translations you are the one giving an interpretation not me; moreover, this is a letter from John.
You certainly are correct on others giving interpretations. That rambunctious one short of a thousand has. But what is yours?

What is a brother, or a sister, or a mother? Must it be necessarily a Christian?

Before there were Christians there was Christ. What was Christ's take on who were his brothers and sisters, and mother?

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Then it must be asked, what is the will of Jesus' Father?

Are the commandments of God his will? The law commands it, and if that's in agreement, this same Jesus distilled and boiled down the whole law and all the prophets to the point of there being nothing left that was volatile, and only the residue was left. The volatile is all the possible interpretations. Jesus fractured the whole and brought the fraction down to the lowest denominator. In summary, he took the whole and gave us the bottom line. Two commandments, the Greatest and the next greatest, is all it takes to do the will of God, the Father. It comes down to LOVE, a give-and-take of love.

Love is all we need. Love is all you need to give. Love is all.

“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Walk your Faith

USA

Joined
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Moves
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2 edits

@pettytalk said
You certainly are correct on others giving interpretations. That rambunctious one short of a thousand has. But what is yours?

What is a brother, or a sister, or a mother? Must it be necessarily a Christian?

Before there were Christians there was Christ. What was Christ's take on who were his brothers and sisters, and mother?

While Jesus was still talking to the ...[text shortened]... two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFR7tb61W1A
Well the top two Commandments are to love the Lord and each other, looking at the 10 commandments doing those two would fulfill the them.

Couple of points first Jesus was the only person who did that, we fall short. Second point when I read about all of the hate in the news (which was what prompted me for this) I am amazed about the grace of God being offered.

Last point the why God love is, is why I am amazed! God’s love always is for the best for the one loved, even at a cost to Himself. So He did what was necessary for us to be saved, but that will never force someone to Him that wants nothing to do with Him.

His love is given it does not require anything reciprocal return (meaning there is no, I will love you if you do X ) any response which causes us to love Him, it will be because He first loved us!

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@kellyjay said
Where in the world did you see me say this was about people hating me?
Are you saying that the OP is in no way about yourself?

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@Rajk999 said
There are several kinds of love in the bible ..
- the kind between man and woman
- the kind between family members
- the kind between friends aka brotherly love
- the kind God has for mankind. [Agape]

This passage in John refers to agape, which is the greatest kind. Paul in 1 Cor 13 has a very detailed description of agape but the word is translated 'charity'.

Cha ...[text shortened]... would be an unreasonable God to expect his creation to dispense with the 'hatred' which he created.
Well stated and I agree.

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@PettyTalk said
You certainly are correct on others giving interpretations. That rambunctious one short of a thousand has. But what is yours?

What is a brother, or a sister, or a mother? Must it be necessarily a Christian?

Before there were Christians there was Christ. What was Christ's take on who were his brothers and sisters, and mother?

While Jesus was still talking to the ...[text shortened]... two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFR7tb61W1A
So few people do either of these, though.

Obviously.