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Originally posted by @thinkofoneI don't ignore them at all.
You ignore that God is.
The top of the list is all that is needed.
(Prove me wrong by confessing that you believe in God).
Originally posted by @sonshipWho is and is not a part of the assembly of which Jesus spoke?
I don't ignore them at all.
You ignore that God is.
The top of the list is all that is needed.
(Prove me wrong by confessing that you believe in God).
Luke 8
19And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd. 20And it was reported to Him, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You.” 21But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."
This is the dividing line according to Jesus. It is clear the many Christians believe otherwise. Many Christians do not believe that the dividing line is those "who hear the word of God and do it".
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In John 20 Jesus breaths Himself into His disciples. They receive the Holy Spirit. Then there is a difference between human beings who have the Holy Spirit and human beings who do not.
The church consists of those who have the Holy Spirit.
The night He appeared to them after His resurrection -
"And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord.
Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you, as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.
And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit.
Whoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven them, and whoever sins you retain, they are retained." (John 20:20-23)
The church was brought into existence. God in Christ as the Spirit was dispensed into man.
They entered into the will of God to be men and women belonging to Christ - organically by means of the life giving Spirit.
"But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Rom. 8:9)
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In resurrection Christ dispensed Himself as the Holy Spirit into His disciples John 20:20. This was in keeping with His promise that He would not leave them as orphans but would come to them, as the Spirit of reality.
"I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live you also shall live.
In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:18-20)
This was the further entering into the will of God.
Are you going to trust an Atheist who seizes upon Luke 8 and rejects everything as untrue after Luke 24 (His resurrection) ?
Luke 8
21But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."
This is the dividing line according to Jesus. It is clear the many Christians believe otherwise. Many Christians do not believe that the dividing line is those "who hear the word of God and do it".
So an Atheist (ThinkOfOne) with no experience with the indwelling Holy Spirit is going to teach the church what the dividing line is.
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Oh, but ToO depends on his good reading comprehension skills to teach him only what the Father can show him by revelation.
Satan, in tempting the Son of God, had good reading comprehension skills and was subtle and intellectual too.
"And he [the devil] brought Him into Jerusalem and set Him on the wing of the temple and said to Him, If You are the Son of God, cast Yourself down from here;
For it is written, To His angels He shall give charge concerning You to protect You. And on their hands they shall bear You up, lest You strike Your foot against a stone."
And Jesus answered and said to him. It is said, You shall not test the Lord your God." (Luke 4:9-12)
What good reading comprehension skills Satan had. Why he pulled a quotation out of Psalm 91:11,12 to tempt the Son of God to make a showy religious miracle at the temple.
ThinkOfOne is doing a similar job to deny God and the resurrected Christ. He quotes about the ones around Him in the crowd wanting to do the will of God. They are His family. Jesus said so.
He imagines that the will of God STOPPED there that day.
But the will of God went on after His resurrection to divide between those who respond to the gospel of the resin crucified and resurrected Redeemer and those who do not.
"And He said to them, This it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise up from the dead on the third day, And that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
You are witnesses of these things. " (Luke 24:46-48)
But here you have a secretive Atheist denying God, denying God incarnate, denying His redemptive death, denying His resurrection, and denying His becoming the Spirit to live in His redeemed people. This heretic is going to teach the church about where the God ordained dividing line is?
He is clearly on the other side of the line as where Christ and the church is.
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You will probably never see ToO quote anything in the Gospels AFTER the resurrection of Christ.
The dividing line is FIRSTLY those who repent and receive forgiveness of sins in the name of the resurrected Christ.
"Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.
And He said to them, Thus it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise up from the dead on the third day, And that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
You are witnesses of these things." (Luke 24:45-48)
Is ThinkOfOne the closet a theist a witness of the death and resurrection of the Savior Jesus? No, and he cares nothing for the will of God or being on the same side of the dividing line as Jesus. He is fighting against the Son of God in fact.
The witnesses are the ones with the Holy Spirit and working by the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the Gospel.
"And behold, I send you the promise of My Father upon you; but as for you, stay in the city until you put on power from on high." (v.49)
So Jesus breathed into them the Holy Spirit for life in John 20. And Jesus empowered them with power by the same Spirit in Acts. These were on the side of the dividing line between the will of Jesus and those needing to cross over the line to repent and believe in Jesus.
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No doubt someone will not accuse me of some kind of emotionalism. But I am rather calm here. I just know not to be fooled about dividing lines by an Atheist who disbelieves in the incarnation of God as a man and His redeeming death and resurrection.
No excitement or emotionalism is needed. It is evident that in spite of ToO's appeal to Luke 8 he has no intention of being on the side of the dividing line the risen Christ is TODAY.
Originally posted by @sonshipIt's good to have a diversity of beliefs and perspectives represented in this community.
No doubt someone will not accuse me of some kind of emotionalism. But I am rather calm here. I just know not to be fooled about dividing lines by an Atheist who disbelieves in the incarnation of God as a man and His redeeming death and resurrection.
No excitement or emotionalism is needed. It is evident that in spite of ToO's appeal to [b]Luke 8 he has no intention of being on the side of the dividing line the risen Christ is TODAY.[/b]
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09 Jun 18
6 edits
Originally posted by @thinkofoneDiversity is okay. Truth is even better.
Who is and is not a part of the assembly of which Jesus spoke?
Luke 8
19And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd. 20And it was reported to Him, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You.” 21But He answered and said to them, “My mother and [b]My brothers are these ...[text shortened]... Christians do not believe that the dividing line is those "who hear the word of God and do it".
ToO points out that Jesus referred to the assembly before His death and resurrection.
The point is granted up to THAT juncture in His ministry in chapter 8, on THAT side of His death and resurrection.
But in following chapter 12 He teaches that He is constrained and limited to form His assembly of those doing the will of God until He undergo the "baptism" of His crucifixion and resurrection to "cast fire on the earth"
" I have come to cast fire on the earth, and how I wish that it were already kindled!
But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how I am constrained until it is accomplished! " (Luke 12:49,50)
The fire He came to cast on the earth is the Holy Spirit.
The baptism that He is eager to be baptized with is His redemptive crucifixion.
It is only when men are forgiven that God the Holy Spirit may be imparted into them. Jesus says He is constrained until this is accomplished.
Praise the Lord that it has now been accomplished.
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09 Jun 18
1 edit
Jesus referred to His extended family as the crowd listening and wanting to do God's will.
Luke 8
21But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."
The atheistic and humanist interpretation was given by ToO:
This is the dividing line according to Jesus. It is clear the many Christians believe otherwise. Many Christians do not believe that the dividing line is those "who hear the word of God and do it".
But in chapter 12 He will redraw the line after He breaks through the restraint of His limitations. He is to undergo a baptism of death for sins, and rise to cast fire of the Holy Spirit on the earth.
Then the line is between those with the Holy Spirit and those without.
"I have come to cast fire on the earth, and how I wish that it were already kindled!
But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how I am pressed [or constrained] until it is accomplished!
for from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against her daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law, and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.." (Luke 12:49-53)
These dividing lines will be because some will receive the fire of the Holy Spirit after His resurrection. He will impart Himself into men and women as "life giving Spirit".
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
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09 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @fmfTouting admiration for "diversity" is a sometimes a good cover for being clueless.
The diversity I am talking about is seen in the various, competing claims about the "truth".
Show me someone who stands for something. Then we can see how tolerant he is towards others.
A clueless man may not be for "diversity" except as excuse for not taking any definite stand.
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09 Jun 18
Jesus was constrained in Luke 8. He longed to cast fire on the earth of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit could come only after He accomplished the baptism of His redemptive crucifixion.
"But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how I am pressed until it is accomplished!" (Luke 12:50)
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09 Jun 18
No FMF, I do not want to talk a lot about you.
Jesus was constrained in securing those who could and would do the will of His Father until he undergo the baptism of His death.
"I have come to cast fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled.
But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how I am pressed [constrained] until it is accomplished." (Luke 12:49,50)
The crowd around Him in chapter 8 still needed further definition by those who repent and receive Him as the Spirit and those who would not and cannot receive Him as the fire of the Holy Spirit.