Do your wives call you "Lord"?

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Be that as it may, but in the end, these traditions and interpretations and extrapolations can be traced in some way or to some degree back to scripture. No Christian scripture; no Christian notions of "sin".

@avalanchethecat said
As far as I can see, the measure of a sin is quantified by the suffering caused, although of course intent also plays a part.

I can't count the number of times I've seen people justifying actions which clearly cause suffering to others by the robotic adherence to scriptural doctrine.

How can two people in a loving relationship expressing their devotion to each other physically be a sin?

Not all sins are determined by the suffering caused. This is a purely human notion. Even though you are an atheist, God is still part of the equation [whether you believe or not]. According to God, there are some actions which are in insult to his creation and destructive to his overall plan for mankind. In fact some of these sins, which are essentially sins against God [not man], are more serious that sins against mankind. Homosexuality is not the only one. There is idolatry, and the worship of Gods of stone etc, described the unpardonable sin. There are descriptions of people sacrificing children to fake Gods. Even the ignoring of the poor [selfishness] is described by Christ as a sin which leads to damnation.

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Apologies if it was not clear; I have been talking about the theist notion of "sin" and I have been talking to Christians about their notion of "sin".

If a Buddhist rocks up here and wants to talk about his or her "theist notion of "sin", or how they believe that acts of "evil" are transgressions of the will of a God, then I will listen.

I note that the Buddha Dharma Education Association is crystal clear about it when they state that the "...idea of sin or original sin has no place in Buddhism."

This will, no doubt, be why you "...don't recall any Zen text with a list of specific sins like in the Ten Commandments."

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Fair enough, but I am talking to Christians here about their notion of "sin". I wasn't talking about "preliterate cultures". I was talking about Christians, and I was talking to Christians, about their Bible and their notion of "sin". You make a fair point about something else though; thank you.

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Zen finds confusion charming. They'd never "ruin" it with anything so mundane as a list of sins.

@rajk999 said
Not all sins are determined by the suffering caused. This is a purely human notion. Even though you are an atheist, God is still part of the equation [whether you believe or not]. According to God, there are some actions which are in insult to his creation and destructive to his overall plan for mankind. In fact some of these sins, which are essentially sins against God [not ...[text shortened]... ven the ignoring of the poor [selfishness] is described by Christ as a sin which leads to damnation.

You believe that "God is still part of the equation". Your appended "[whether you believe it or not]" is, again, only your belief. I'm afraid there is simply no way you can justify your uncritical belief in a collection of ancient memes in any way which has gravity with somebody who doesn't share that belief. To me these things just seem archaic and faintly ridiculous. Homosexuality a sin against mankind? Goodness me.

@avalanchethecat said
You believe that "God is still part of the equation". Your appended "[whether you believe it or not]" is, again, only your belief. I'm afraid there is simply no way you can justify your uncritical belief in a collection of ancient memes in any way which has gravity with somebody who doesn't share that belief. To me these things just seem archaic and faintly ridiculous. Homosexuality a sin against mankind? Goodness me.

Thats the nice thing about all this. Nobody needs to justify anything. I dont need to justify to you why I believe in God and why I think the laws of God are good to follow. If you cannot understand that ,,,, I'm ok with that. Neither do you need to justify why you think its ok for a man to take a dick up his a$$. You are entitled to your opinion. Govts are entitled to encourage homosexuality, prostitution etc. Society is going the way the bible foretold. Im glad all this is happening.

@rajk999 said
Thats the nice thing about all this. Nobody needs to justify anything. I dont need to justify to you why I believe in God and why I think the laws of God are good to follow. If you cannot understand that ,,,, I'm ok with that. Neither do you need to justify why you think its ok for a man to take a dick up his a$$. You are entitled to your opinion. Govts are entitled to encou ...[text shortened]... ality, prostitution etc. Society is going the way the bible foretold. Im glad all this is happening.

I think you probably reveal more about yourself than you realise here.

@rajk999 said
Not all sins are determined by the suffering caused. This is a purely human notion. Even though you are an atheist, God is still part of the equation [whether you believe or not]. According to God, there are some actions which are in insult to his creation and destructive to his overall plan for mankind. In fact some of these sins, which are essentially sins against God [not ...[text shortened]... ven the ignoring of the poor [selfishness] is described by Christ as a sin which leads to damnation.

Wow, this sounds amazingly familiar.

Let's see if the crew rips you a new one over it like they tried with me.

@avalanchethecat said
You believe that "God is still part of the equation". Your appended "[whether you believe it or not]" is, again, only your belief. I'm afraid there is simply no way you can justify your uncritical belief in a collection of ancient memes in any way which has gravity with somebody who doesn't share that belief. To me these things just seem archaic and faintly ridiculous. Homosexuality a sin against mankind? Goodness me.

He actually said that homosexuality is a sin against God.

The difference between what he said and what I said was that I said that some men say that homosexuality is a sin against God. You know, the Pharisees.

@avalanchethecat said
I think you probably reveal more about yourself than you realise here.

Thank you. I take that as a compliment.
Im not one of those weak lame Christian pastors that allow social standards to turn them into sons of Belial. Im different.

@rajk999 said
Thank you. I take that as a compliment.
Im not one of those weak lame Christian pastors that allow social standards to turn them into sons of Belial. Im different.

Does it not trouble you that your religion encourages your prejudices? Have you ever taken the time to wonder why you feel them?

@avalanchethecat said
Does it not trouble you that your religion encourages your prejudices? Have you ever taken the time to wonder why you feel them?

No, No

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Apparently she has already said or implied that she is in fact in an intimate relationship with another woman. So she has read the bible and believes that she has found a loophole. So, keep finding loopholes as if you are dealing with earthly lawyers and prosecutors.