Do your wives call you "Lord"?

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I'm not sure about FMF. I think he has a global if not cosmic perspective, but on the other hand, if I ever went over there to visit him, I would probably get caned in a public square just for looking like a faeg.

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If you are going to cite a list of churches as being those that have ordained openly lesbian or gay clergy, in order to further the discussion, you should perhaps lay out a theological argument that one or more of them use to contend that homosexual sex is not "sinful".

@avalanchethecat said
How do you know homosexuality is a sin? Can you determine such without reference to scripture?

"Sin" is transgression of God's will. Knowledge of what these transgressions are [according to any given teligion] comes from that religion's scripture. There is no notion of what is and isn't a "sin" without scripture.

@fmf said
"Sin" is transgression of God's will. Knowledge of what these transgressions are [according to any given teligion] comes from that religion's scripture. There is no notion of what is and isn't a "sin" without scripture.

Sir (provisionally), perhaps we could together find some way to move beyond those antique first attempts to delineate what is wrong and what is right, we loungers upon the quantum futons that the Cosmic Emanator has so kindly provided in Its leisurely way.

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You're the one who copy-pasted a list of churches from Wikipedia which, in the context of this discussion, is a kind of spamming. If you don't know what theological argument any of them use to contend that homosexual sex is not "sinful", why not just say so?

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Yeah, I think he just likes to scrabble in the weeds. Well, what can one do?

@kevin-eleven said
Sir (provisionally), perhaps we could together find some way to move beyond those antique first attempts to delineate what is wrong and what is right, we loungers upon the quantum futons that the Cosmic Emanator has so kindly provided in Its leisurely way.

I have no problem discussing morality, its sources and applications [how our moral compasses work and why, for example] and I quite enjoy the conversations that delve into all of this. There is nothing amiss about seeking to dissect and delineate "what is wrong and what is right" on a Spirituality Forum.

However, while there may be some overlapping, morality and "sin" are not synonymous.

The theist notion of "sin" is not an "antique" one. Homosexual sex, for example, in my view, cannot be characterized as being morally unsound, in and of itself, but it certainly is perceived as being "sinful" by - probably the majority of - Christians.

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Let me try again. What theological argument do any of these churches use to assert that homosexual sex is not "sinful"?

@rajk999 said
God determines what are sins and what are not. I dont do that. Not sure where the word prejudice came in.

The only sins that will cause me to become prejudice against someone are sins like, cold-blooded murder, wilfully lying, gossipping to create enmity, greed and corruption, paedophilia, kidnapping for body parts .. that kind of thing.

Yes, I understand that, but what I'm asking is how does one determine that homosexuality, for example, is actually a sin at all without recourse to the bible?

@avalanchethecat said
Yes, I understand that, but what I'm asking is how does one determine that homosexuality, for example, is actually a sin at all without recourse to the bible?

I think FMF answered your question. Knowledge of sin for the Christian comes from God and therefore the bible. Whats your answer. How do you determine what a sin is without the bible or God?

@rajk999 said
I think FMF answered your question. Knowledge of sin for the Christian comes from God and therefore the bible. Whats your answer. How do you determine what a sin is without the bible or God?

As far as I can see, the measure of a sin is quantified by the suffering caused, although of course intent also plays a part.

I can't count the number of times I've seen people justifying actions which clearly cause suffering to others by the robotic adherence to scriptural doctrine.

How can two people in a loving relationship expressing their devotion to each other physically be a sin?

@fmf said
"Sin" is transgression of God's will. Knowledge of what these transgressions are [according to any given teligion] comes from that religion's scripture. There is no notion of what is and isn't a "sin" without scripture.

Sorry FMF, I missed this. I agree, and I am surprised that more christians don't see the problem with this. I suppose they are blinded by the idea that their scripture is in some way god-given, which quite obviously it isn't.