C.S. Lewis, The Case for Christianity

@fmf said
I will leave it to you to speculate about "if it is true" et.s etc. and then you should act as you see fit based on whatever conclusion you reach.

Do you believe truth affects everyone or only the select few who happen to believe it?

@dj2becker said
What you don't seem to get is that our opinions can either be aligned with the truth or not. The truth of whether Jesus died on the cross or not does not depend on our opinions.

Of course I get it, you’re just being silly now.

let’s use the brick on your head analogy again to explore this.

A loose brick falls from my window and just misses you. You immediately see me look out of the window and laugh for some reason. You saw the brick fall, actual truth, it nearly hit you, actual truth, you assume that I dropped it, perceived truth to you.

I saw nothing. I heard a noise, looked out of my window and see you all upset standing next to a pile of bricks claiming that I threw one at you. The truth for me is very different than it is for you but the brick did in fact fall.

Now FMF comes around the corner and sees you shouting up at me and me shouting down at you. On the floor are several bricks. He sees you making a truth claim that I dropped a brick on you and me claiming that nothing happened. You say that I threw a brick at you and I claim that I didn’t. FMF has no way of knowing what the truth actually is. His view might be that as you have a history of being dishonest that you are lying that a brick even fell.

Different truths even though the brick did fall. I think you need to stop this silly pretending that you don’t understand and start showing some intellectual honesty. Then people like FMF in the analogy might take you your truth claims a bit more seriously.

@fmf said
It doesn't matter to me if you think what I believe is an "untruth".

It's up to you to decide what matters to you and it's also up to you to analyse the evidence of truth claims or ignore it.

@dj2becker said
Likewise if it were not true and I believed it was, I would be believing an untruth.

I am unaffected by your claims that what you believe is true. I am similarly unaffected by you worrying about whether what you believe will turn out to be an untruth. You can believe whatever you want.

@dj2becker said
If it is true it affects everyone whether they believe it or not. I'm sure as an ex-believer you would know why that is.

He’s a chance for you to be honest.

Did you post as mariekeXIV?

@dj2becker said
Do you believe truth affects everyone or only the select few who happen to believe it?

I think that religious beliefs based on conjecture about the "truth" stemming from speculation about supernatural causality and divine beings affect only those who happen to believe them.

@divegeester said
RomamsFetchmybeckermariekeXIV

Aww a little thumbs down from the lad for this one.

@dj2becker said
It's up to you to decide what matters to you and it's also up to you to analyse the evidence of truth claims or ignore it.

I don't think I have ignored anything with regard to Christianity. I was a Christian for decades. But, as you know, I no longer subscribe to the "truth claims" that Christians make about Jesus and about themselves.

@divegeester said
Of course I get it, you’re just being silly now.

let’s use the brick on your head analogy again to explore this.

A loose brick falls from my window and just misses you. You immediately see me look out of the window and laugh for some reason. You saw the brick fall, actual truth, it nearly hit you, actual truth, you assume that I dropped it, perceived truth to you. ...[text shortened]... honesty. Then people like FMF in the analogy might take you your truth claims a bit more seriously.

I believe it is possible to have some certainty regarding historical events if we consider and analyze all the evidence. I also believe it is possible to ignore or bury evidence and I'm also not accusing anyone of doing that.

@dj2becker said
I believe it is possible to have some certainty regarding historical events if we consider and analyze all the evidence. I also believe it is possible to ignore or bury evidence and I'm also not accusing anyone of doing that.

Did you post as mariekeXIV?

@divegeester said
Did you post as mariekeXIV?

He did. Maybe he's going to brazen it out.

@dj2becker said
I believe it is possible to have some certainty regarding historical events if we consider and analyze all the evidence.

If you have some certainty regarding your God figure based on "all the evidence", why isn't that enough for your faith? Why do you always, always, always return to this feedback loop about "absolute" and "objective" truth?

@fmf said
If you have some certainty regarding your God figure based on "all the evidence", why isn't that enough for your faith? Why do you always, always, always return to this feedback loop about "absolute" and "objective" truth?

When did I say it's not enough for my faith?

@dj2becker said
It's up to you to decide what matters to you and it's also up to you to analyse the evidence of truth claims or ignore it.

Having looked at Judaism, Islam, Christianity and Hinduism ~ to varying degrees and for different amounts of time ~ I am a non-believer when it comes to these religions.

@dj2becker said
When did I say it's not enough for my faith?

It is my observation based on your behaviour.

This riff, which sometimes seems as if it is the only thing you have wanted to talk about, has been brought up by you over and over and over again for 3-4 years.

I deduce that your faith is brittle and you are resorting to rhetorical gimmicks as a kind of arid, joyless, online assertiveness.

If your faith were stronger, you would surely talk about Jesus' life and teaching, no? Instead, you are constantly stuck in a pool of interpersonal/intellectual quicksand of your own making.

I conclude that the certainty you claim to have regarding your God figure - based on "all the evidence" - simply isn't that enough for your faith.

You seem to need your Christian footprint here in this community to be bolstered by gimmicks and not much else.