C.S. Lewis, The Case for Christianity

@dj2becker said
Doesn’t really matter if you’re a Jew, Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist or Atheist if truth is relative.

And if that doesn’t matter why would anything else really matter?

Because (of course) there are an abundance of other things in life which matter independently and irrespectively of what religion one is. Family, health, love, environment, climate, social welfare, are a handful of examples.

@divegeester said
Because (of course) there are an abundance of other things in life which matter independently and irrespectively of what religion one is. Family, health, love, environment, climate, social welfare, are a handful of examples.

What matters to a person depends on their upbringing, their life experience, the people around them, their insights and perspectives, and their hopes [and fears] for the future. For many people, their religious beliefs ~ and all the personal certainties and aspirations that they give rise to ~ have a bearing on what they believe matters.

@divegeester said
Because (of course) there are an abundance of other things in life which matter independently and irrespectively of what religion one is. Family, health, love, environment, climate, social welfare, are a handful of examples.

For something to matter independently or irrespective of someone’s religious beliefs it needs to hinge on an absolute truth that transcends mere belief. Some people may believe family matters, for example, while others may not. And if truth is relative someone who does not believe family matters would not be wrong in their belief. But for family to matter independently or irrespectively of whether someone believes it or not it would require it to hinge on an absolute truth that transcends human belief.

So within a context of relative truth how could you say that someone who does not believe that family, health, love, environment, climate, social welfare etc matters is wrong?

@dj2becker said
For something to matter independently or irrespective of someone’s religious beliefs it needs to hinge on an absolute truth that transcends mere belief.

Of course it doesn’t, why on earth would it need to do that.

@dj2becker said
Some people may believe family matters, for example, while others may not.

Of course, that is why what is important to people varies from person to person and is not absolute.

@dj2becker said
But for family to matter independently or irrespectively of whether someone believes it or not it would require it to hinge on an absolute truth that transcends human belief.

This doesn’t make sense.

@divegeester said
Of course it doesn’t, why on earth would it need to do that.

Within a framework of relative truth where logic no longer applies and anything is possible there’s no point in me disagreeing with you because you can just continue to shift the goal posts.

@dj2becker said
So within a context of relative truth how could you say that someone who does not believe that family, health, love, environment, climate, social welfare etc matters is wrong?

Well the answer would be different for each of those as they are each independent examples which could have relative importance to different people.

I think you are trying to be clever and not quite getting there.

@dj2becker said
Within a framework of relative truth where logic no longer applies and anything is possible there’s no point in me disagreeing with you because you can just continue to shift the goal posts.

What “framework”?
Why does “logic no longer apply”?
What “goalposts”?

What are you on about?

@divegeester said
Well the answer would be different for each of those as they are each independent examples which could have relative importance to different people.

I think you are trying to be clever and not quite getting there.

You just said there are an abundance of things that matter independently and irrespectively of what religion one is. Is this true for everyone or just for you?

@divegeester said
What “framework”?
Why does “logic no longer apply”?
What “goalposts”?

What are you on about?

Within a framework of relative truth logic no longer applies because two contradictory statements can both be true for different people.

@dj2becker said
You just said there are an abundance of things that matter independently and irrespectively of what religion one is. Is this true for everyone or just for you?

What a strange question, of course there are many things of varying topics which are important to people. Different people have different things which are important to them. For example one person may feel strongly about the environment and climate change while another person my regard family and domesticity as being of their highest concern. There are about 8 billion people in the world who will all have their own mix of values and critics for what is important to them.

If you happen to disagree with them about what is important in life I would imagine that the vast majority of that 8 billion would not give you or your opinion a second thought. What do you think?

@dj2becker said
Within a framework of relative truth logic no longer applies because two contradictory statements can both be true for different people.

Are you aware that logic is independent of personal opinion?

@divegeester said
Are you aware that logic is independent of personal opinion?

Lets use this example: imagine person A is of the opinion that Jesus died on the cross and person B is of the opinion that Jesus didn’t die on the cross. Logically speaking can both their opinions be true? Clearly not.

@divegeester said
What a strange question, of course there are many things of varying topics which are important to people. Different people have different things which are important to them. For example one person may feel strongly about the environment and climate change while another person my regard family and domesticity as being of their highest concern. There are about 8 billion peo ...[text shortened]... t majority of that 8 billion would not give you or your opinion a second thought. What do you think?

Ultimately, if truth is relative, all opinions on what matters and what doesn’t matter are neither true nor false.