Being a deist

@fmf said
Seems OK. As it says, both deism and theism hold the belief that God is the creator of the universe and gave human beings the ability to think.

I have conceded many times that I think the universe and human consciousness are probably the two strongest kinds of evidence [that theists have] that a creator entity exists.

Yeah, I would agree with that but I also think evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is strong and proves God exists.

Atheists I’ve interacted with tend to be naturalists and only believe what they can discern with their five senses, and they reject miracles.

But they’re forced to believe four miracles to remain atheists:

Something came from nothing.

Life came from non-life.

Order came from chaos.

Consciousness came from mindlessness.

@fmf said
So re: the OP's first of two questions: Deists' belief in the universe being created by one creator entity, the same as monotheists believe the universe is created by one creator entity, this must surely be some 'improvement' on explicit atheism in the eyes of theists right?

I suppose. I believe God existed before I became a Christian, and that probably made it easier for me to become a Christian.

Being a Christian, I think Christianity is the only true “religion.” (Ask a Muslim and he’ll tell you Islam is the only true religion, and a Jew will say the same for Judaism.)

If believing in a creator entity gets an atheist closer to believing John 14:6, I suppose that’s an improvement.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

(John 14:6)

@pb1022 said
Atheists
they’re forced to believe four miracles to remain atheists:

Something came from nothing.

Life came from non-life.

Order came from chaos.

Consciousness came from mindlessness.

But the topic in hand is deism not atheism. I think deists have their 'answer' regarding the four things listed above, they simply don't subscribe to any of the "revealed" religions.

@pb1022 said
As for an improvement over atheism, I don’t think so, in the same way I don’t think people who believed in false gods in Biblical times were any better off than atheists.

So you've changed your mind about this?

@fmf said
But the topic in hand is deism not atheism. I think deists have their 'answer' regarding the four things listed above, they simply don't subscribe to any of the "revealed" religions.

So where does a deist go after he becomes a deist?

He apparently doesn’t believe God listens to, interacts with or is involved with His creation, so prayer makes no sense.

The deist doesn’t believe God has revealed anything to His creation so reading religious texts like the Holy Bible is out as is determining how one obtains salvation and lives in a way pleasing to God.

How, from a practical standpoint, would the life of a deist be different from the life of an atheist?

@fmf said
So you've changed your mind about this?

If being a deist gets an individual closer to accepting Jesus Christ, I’d say deism is an improvement over atheism.

But if the deist goes no further, I don’t think it’s an improvement because he essentially believes in a false god - not unlike what the Apostle Paul encountered in Greece on a missionary trip when he saw a statue set up to “The unknown god.” I guess the Greeks back then believed in covering all their bases.

@pb1022 said
The deist doesn’t believe God has revealed anything to His creation so reading religious texts like the Holy Bible is out as is determining how one obtains salvation and lives in a way pleasing to God.

How, from a practical standpoint, would the life of a deist be different from the life of an atheist?

The Holy Bible might be interesting to a deist because it is rich and extremely popular literature that gives insights into psychology and anthropology.

@pb1022 said
If being a deist gets an individual closer to accepting Jesus Christ, I’d say deism is an improvement over atheism.

OK, I understand.

@pb1022 said
How, from a practical standpoint, would the life of a deist be different from the life of an atheist?

From a practical standpoint, family - children - spouse - community - working - learning - teaching - loving... atheists', deists' and theists' lives aren't so different really. They all find their own meanings of life, their own structure, all are equally as able to navigate themselves through life with their moral compasses. Praying, sermons, church, Bible reading ~ theist preoccupations ~ are only activities - as I say - from a practical standpoint.

@fmf said
From a practical standpoint, family - children - spouse - community - working - learning - teaching - loving... atheists', deists' and theists' lives aren't so different really. They all find their own meanings of life, their own structure, all are equally as able to navigate themselves through life with their moral compasses. Praying, sermons, church, Bible reading ~ theist preoccupations ~ are only activities - as I say - from a practical standpoint.

I disagree with you here.

I believe a human being can have a relationship with God and that God can be a tremendous resource and help in difficult times. The Holy Bible is very clear on this, but I know it from personal experience.

This is a very true verse - one of numerous like it - in the Bible:

“God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.”

(Psalm 46:1)

I don’t think atheists can understand what I’m saying because not only do they have to imagine God exists but they have to discern Him on a spiritual level, which I think is impossible for them.

@fmf said
The Holy Bible might be interesting to a deist because it is rich and extremely popular literature that gives insights into psychology and anthropology.

But in terms of knowing anything about the creator entity, it would be worthless from a deist’s perspective, no?

@pb1022 said
I don’t think atheists can understand what I’m saying because not only do they have to imagine God exists but they have to discern Him on a spiritual level, which I think is impossible for them.

I fully understand the claims you make about yourself and why you make them.

@pb1022 said
But in terms of knowing anything about the creator entity, it would be worthless from a deist’s perspective, no?

If deists' perception of the creator entity means they don't think something came from nothing, they don't think life came from non-life, they don't think order came from chaos, and they don't think consciousness came from "mindlessness", then that may not be "worthless" to them. Deists don't have any obligation to make either theists or atheists think their perception of the universe is not "worthless".

@pb1022 said
I believe a human being can have a relationship with God and that God can be a tremendous resource and help in difficult times.

All human beings can draw upon all manner of philosophical, psychological and spiritual resources and so get through difficult times.

@fmf said
I fully understand the claims you make about yourself and why you make them.

You understand neither.