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This reminds me of Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
There did come a point in the lives of some of us Christians, that we began to understand that what is REALLY going on in the universe is more fascinating than any science fiction story.
We are a battle field from day one of our creation.
Satan's way is so often to run ahead of God and imitate what is on God's heart. Satan rushes ahead to ruin by imitation what he knows God is doing.
So before man ate of "the tree of life" he enticed them to eat of the tree that would JOIN them and all their descendents to tjhe devil. That was the forbidden fruit of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" .
Some of us have found the actual reality to be way more interesting than that which comes out of man's imagination.
@sonship saidDont forget this passage Paul wrote to the Ephesians
PB2010
“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Amen. His might is THE might. So mighty is our Lord Jesus.
He overcame.
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.(Ephesians 5:1-7 KJV)
Keep the commandments and Live righteously
Otherwise you will not inherit the Kingdom of God
Dont let evil Preachers [Sonship type]
Deceive you with vain words about farms growing Christ
Ignore the fool and live righteously.
Keep the commandments
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In these last of days Christ is securing for Himself a critical mass of believers around rthe world to be a dispensational changer of the age.
I want to be a part of that critical mass.
Notice that Jesus says of such that they have only done what was expected of them to do.
"He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were ordered, does he? So also you, when you do all the things which are ordered you, say, We are unprofitable slaves; we have done what we ought to have done." (Luke 17:9,10)
To be filled with Christ is only what we were expected to be about.
We are not an elite or a cult who are occupied with letting Christ grow in us.
We are only responding to what Christ expected of normal disciples.
He expects that we would overcome through growing in Him.
It is not a cult. It is the normal Christian life.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAgreed, well off the written word.
Witness Lee has given you an alternative opinion on God's salvation that falls outside of scripture.
Interestingly sonship cannot defend it either.
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Dont let evil Preachers [Sonship type]
Deceive you with vain words about farms growing Christ
The implication is that Paul's word about the church is God's cultivated land (pr farm) and God's building has nothing to do with living righteously.
Rajk999 cannot figure out that the two matters are related.
I am sorry folks. I am not able to help him to see.
But the growth of Christ in men and women is of COURSE the transforming of thier lives into more righteous living because Christ is the one living out from them.
Just below the word about "You are God's farm, God's building" Paul follows with explanation that God's building (the temple) is HOLY.
Of course the matter of Christ growing in the believers has its byproduct in them living holy lives of rightoeusness. Living holy also encreases the watering and nourishing of the seed of God planted. Obedience leads to encrease of growth in life and vica versa.
"Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys the temple of God God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you." (vs. 16,17)
This destruction of the temple in this context is to mar, defile, damage the temple by attempting to build with inferior things of the fallen man.
MAR (verb)
: to ruin the beauty or perfection of (something) : to hurt or damage the good condition of (something)
A large scar marred his face.
Her acting mars an otherwise great movie.
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Interestingly sonship cannot defend it either.
A question to you is still unanswered as far as I can see. Talking about unable to do something. Talking about unable to defend something so take no position one way or another.
When then do you think Christ will build His church? Only after everyone is in heaven?
I don't know what you have to lose to give a simple answer.
Yes or No about whether it is possible for there to be a continuation on earth of the church life God started in the church in Jerusalem in the book of Acts.
I am not sure what it costs you to take a position since you are so opinionated on other things.
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So if the FARM is for growing Christ it follows that the growing of Christ is the building up of the church.
More Christ growing more church being builded up.
The building material is Christ - Christ in the believers lived out, growing,
expanding, developing.
Once again, this is only what we as Christians were required to be about.
There is no elite here. There is only the normal expectation that we be in the business of allowing transformation via the growth of Christ.
"grow[ing] up into Him in all things" (Eph. 4:17)
Is there a higher and better matter to live for?
I haven't seen any.
@sonship saidSay 'O Lord' 3 times and they let you in to the Witness Lee Funny Farm.
So if the FARM is for growing Christ it follows that the growing of Christ is the building up of the church.
More Christ growing more church being builded up.
The building material is Christ - Christ in the believers lived out, growing,
expanding, developing.
Once again, this is only what we as Christians were required to be about.
There is no elite ...[text shortened]... hings" (Eph. 4:17) [/b]
Is there a higher and better matter to live for?
I haven't seen any.
And then when Jesus returns you get damnation because you followed sonship.
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So Christians and seeking ones - The New Testament speaks of growing up into Christ in all things. And the New Testament speaks of the local assembly of Christians should be God's cultivated land for planting, watering, and growing Christ in people.
The atheist and his friend says "We're going to blame these words and concepts on one Witness Lee. This is all his fault."
Lee just pointed out what Paul wrote. And he showed many how to practically enter into what Paul wrote about.
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Now answering a early question I put to a poster - the FIRST problem Paul deals with in Corinth is division. It is division which will hinder the growth of Christ, limiting it because the supply comes not just vertically but horizontally in an atmosphere of ONENESS.
Corinth had many problems as you should know by reading the First Corinthian letter. The FIRST problem Paul gives attention to is their wanting to be divided.
The FARM needs unity. The FARM needs oneness.
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I have no fear of damnation.
My damnation took place on Calvary in Jesus Christ when He carried up my sins in His body onto the tree. When He became sin on my behalf that I should be made the righteousness of God in Him.
God judged my sins there. And I agreed with Him judging my sins totally in Christ on His cross.
I do fear losing the reward of the manifestation of the kingdom in the millennium. And I have no gurantee of that. But my redemption is an eternal redemption.
I am sorry that Rakk999 doesn't have that assurance and seems seething with resentment that others would have it.
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@divegeester
Daydreamer.
You have done very little to show error in Lee's ministry.
Now you may force me to mention the name of the man gone since 1997 and pretend that I worship him when I know he was human.
But keep trying if you want. You have a couple of atheists to cheer you on who have been equally ineffective.
The church in Corinth - God's farm - sorry. God's building - sorry.
Growing in Christ with "the growth of God" into Christ the head in all things.
Your cyncicism isn't going to stop this.
Now look, the FULLNESS of Christ is the destination some will arrive into. It right there is the word of God.
"Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowlesdge of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." (Eph. 4:13)
Its says we will all arrive. Maybe will not all arrive at the same time. But we Christians ALL will arrive.
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" . . . at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ"
You may think these are just pious sounding words. That's your loss.
Some of us believe before He comes back He will get a critical mass at least to arrive at the reality of the builded Body - "the fullness of the One who fills all in all." (Eph. 1:23)
So you go along and work on your pouting and unbelief and blaming the messenger. That is blaming the messenger for delivering the message that is there in the New Testament. Work on your unbelief with the help of a few atheists rooting for you, cheering you on along the way.
I want to follow brothers and sisters laboring like Paul to "present every man full-grown in Christ." (Col. 1:28)