Ukraine is losing the war

@no1marauder said
Will that be before or after the Donald walks on water and feeds five thousand with five loaves and two fishes?

I think Trump is the only one in a position to end it because it seems likely that he would force the Ukrainians to sign a deal...

Which is the right thing.

How many more hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians need to die just to solidify the fact that they will not be getting the Donbass back?

@suzianne said
A propagandist talking about propaganda.

Good one.

Let's simplify this:

in a situation like the Ukraine war, the closest we will ever get to something that is not propaganda would be something like Indian or Argentine media...

Of course, even this is not really true, as there are party affiliations in these places that want to promote American interventionism or are somehow close to Russia that can influence media outlets...

I am only saying this to emphasize that there are few parties in the world that are even producing media about this that can begin to be conceived as objective.

@philokalia said
I think Trump is the only one in a position to end it because it seems likely that he would force the Ukrainians to sign a deal...

Which is the right thing.

How many more hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians need to die just to solidify the fact that they will not be getting the Donbass back?

No, it doesn't "seem likely" at all.

It's just another example of cult like hero worship bearing no relation to reality.

@philokalia said
Let's simplify this:

in a situation like the Ukraine war, the closest we will ever get to something that is not propaganda would be something like Indian or Argentine media...

Of course, even this is not really true, as there are party affiliations in these places that want to promote American interventionism or are somehow close to Russia that can influence media o ...[text shortened]... s in the world that are even producing media about this that can begin to be conceived as objective.

Try Al-Jazeera; their reporting is pretty factual.

@earl-of-trumps said
Orban had a surprise statement the other day. He said that the only person that could end the was is Donald Trump.

What is your source of information?

@metal-brain said
What is your source of information?

Well, he only reads Breitbart, so ....................................................

@philokalia said
I think Trump is the only one in a position to end it because it seems likely that he would force the Ukrainians to sign a deal...

Which is the right thing.

How many more hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians need to die just to solidify the fact that they will not be getting the Donbass back?

Explain how he gets the Ukrainians and the Russians on the same page and how exactly he’s going to force anyone to sign.
It’s not a dinner party debate for Europe, Russia is an existential threat, there is every chance Europe will continue to arm Ukraine at least to the point whereby they can hold their position.

@earl-of-trumps said
Orban had a surprise statement the other day. He said that the only person that could end the was is Donald Trump.

Yeah as mentioned right wing authoritarians from the Kremlin to mar a largo support each other, a compliment from the crypto fascist Orban is no compliment at all.
If you think trump throwing Ukraine to the Russian wolf will stop the war you may well be in for a surprise.

@kevcvs57 said
Yeah as mentioned right wing authoritarians from the Kremlin to mar a largo support each other, a compliment from the crypto fascist Orban is no compliment at all.
If you think trump throwing Ukraine to the Russian wolf will stop the war you may well be in for a surprise.

First of all, I am sure Orban refers to Trump's diplomatic skills, not his ability to drop bombs.
In no way will Trump throw Ukraine to the Russians, he would back Ukraine all the way. What the hell is wrong with you

@earl-of-trumps said
First of all, I am sure Orban refers to Trump's diplomatic skills, not his ability to drop bombs.
In no way will Trump throw Ukraine to the Russians, he would back Ukraine all the way. What the hell is wrong with you

"Trump's diplomatic skills"???? LMAO!

He was a worldwide laughingstock and remains one.

@earl-of-trumps said
First of all, I am sure Orban refers to Trump's diplomatic skills, not his ability to drop bombs.
In no way will Trump throw Ukraine to the Russians, he would back Ukraine all the way. What the hell is wrong with you

You really believe that?!

Trump would abandon Ukraine instantly to the Russians.

@no1marauder said
No, it doesn't "seem likely" at all.

It's just another example of cult like hero worship bearing no relation to reality.

Well, yes, it can look silly...

Let's say Vivek Ramaswamy got the nomination and became President of the US. He would also have the power to end the war and negotiate a peace deal...

Let's say that RFK Jr. ran for the Democrats or a third party and won the election, he would also have the power to end the war...

But the most likely scenario is that the only man in the world with any good chance of ending the war in a timely manner is former Pres. Trump...

Though it may be the case that before we even get to the election in 2024 and the inauguration in January of 2025, the war will be lost.

It might be part of Biden's attempt to win the election to tie up loose ends and end the war in the Ukraine in 2024... The problem is, though, that he would just be negotiating a defeat.

@kevcvs57 said
Explain how he gets the Ukrainians and the Russians on the same page and how exactly he’s going to force anyone to sign.
It’s not a dinner party debate for Europe, Russia is an existential threat, there is every chance Europe will continue to arm Ukraine at least to the point whereby they can hold their position.

The last part makes no sense at all: why would Ukraine try to hold their current position instead of negotiating for the loss..?

In a static war, they are going to lose of attrition. There's no "holding." There's either being able to push them out via counteroffensive (which they cannot) or negotiating their defeat...

You are suggesting that, instead of negotiating the war to draw it to its end, they just keep this front open and keep fighting...

I guess you would say that because you think the end goal of Russia is to take Kyiv and annex the whole thing... Which is a common NATO talking point used to make it sound like an existential threat where no options exist but to fight endlessly.

IDK, man, not sure how we're going to have this discussion if you believe all the garbage that Euro & American news services fill your head with.

@no1marauder said
"Trump's diplomatic skills"???? LMAO!

He was a worldwide laughingstock and remains one.

Well, ... Even liberals laud what he did with North Korea.

That was a huge departure from what we normally get from American politicians.

@philokalia said
Well, yes, it can look silly...

Let's say Vivek Ramaswamy got the nomination and became President of the US. He would also have the power to end the war and negotiate a peace deal...

Let's say that RFK Jr. ran for the Democrats or a third party and won the election, he would also have the power to end the war...

But the most likely scenario is that t ...[text shortened]... he war in the Ukraine in 2024... The problem is, though, that he would just be negotiating a defeat.

Philo: He would also have the power to end the war and negotiate a peace deal...

No, he wouldn't. The only parties who can end the war are the ones fighting it. Even a threat to cut off US military aid to Ukraine, as destructive to the US' alliances as that would be, wouldn't accomplish an end to the war.

Americans vastly overrate the US' control of world events.