@moonbus saidOnly free people can express compassion, empathy and benevolence. The welfare state destroys these virtues. A person cannot claim to be benevolent if all they're doing is responding to the god state waving a stick at them, they have been reduced to dumb beasts doing whatever they can not to be punished.
Only the self-sufficient will survive. That's just what Joe wants. That's the law of the jungle; that's how every other creature in nature acts: the diseased, the old and infirm, the handicapped and the deformed, are ostracized and hunted down by predators. But that is not how h.saps prevailed over large cats and mammoths. How h.saps prevailed was by cooperating, by providin ...[text shortened]... tempt, religious and ideological (Jesus, Karl Marx, etc.), to inculcate compassion has failed.
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@moonbus saidMoonbus and all posters have read me many times, and know that I am a champion for the down and out, desperate people who need help. Govt data has that at 40M people. I have said 50 times that we should totally support these sad people.
Only the self-sufficient will survive. That's just what Joe wants.
So, you misrepresent me. Not nice, Moonbus. And, note that you libs never even USE the phrase 'self sufficient', and all the other references to self reliance, etc etc. Frankly, you don't have a concept of it.
@averagejoe1 saidGive us your take on dialectic materialism.
Moonbus and all posters have read me many times, and know that I am a champion for the down and out, desperate people who need help. Govt data has that at 40M people. I have said 50 times that we should totally support these sad people.
So, you misrepresent me. Not nice, Moonbus. And, note that you libs never even USE the phrase 'self sufficient', and all the other references to self reliance, etc etc. Frankly, you don't have a concept of it.
Go on!
@shavixmir saidLet's do this. Forget my use of the word socialism, let us just stipulate the concept that I present, which is dependence on government? All of you libs who are looking to the government to, well, give them money. There are many examples, the most recent being the losers who want their tuition loans paid off.
Dialectic materialism.
Come on. Explain to us what that is and why you think it’s incorrect.
That is the basis of socialism. If you can’t explain Hegel’s critique of Kant and how Marx transitioned idealism to materialism, then you can’t actually comprehend socialism.
If you want a serious debate on this subject, that’s what we need to discuss.
That should get us on the same page. So, having said that, Shav, can you tell us what you think about your neighbor earning money, being taxed big time, the tax money of which is going to be used to pay for your existence ?
I challenge you to answer this question, setting aside your silly reference to the Dialectic Materialism angle? Tell us what you think of this .
NONE of you ever have. And, you wont here, because liberals do not answer questions. And to make it easy, we can all stipulate that AvJoe has no concept of Socialism.
I am talking about govt dependence. Really creepy to me.
@averagejoe1 saidBut you don't comprehend wat socialism or Marxism is.
I'll help you. Just say you believe in Marxism.
If you don't know the what dialectic materialism is, then you are in no position to claim anything about anything which stems from it.
For example, you're always on about the rich being taxed. Marxism and socialism is not about that. It's about ownership and friction.
That one option is to tax "the rich" is true. There are other options though. But, since you don't see the problem, you can't fathom what could solve it.
All you see are jobless people being handed someone else's money.
And that's the gun you keep sticking to; neither here nor there, when discussing socialism, Marxism, communism or anarchy.
@vivify saidPlus Sweden has plenty of millionaires and even billionaires under this system. It is capitalism with rules and regs that prevent abuse.
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20191212-where-losing-your-job-is-a-good-thing
Sweden, which is often hailed as one of the best examples of socialism, has job security councils "who pick you up, dust you down and match your skills and ambitions with the market. As a result, Sweden has the best re-employment rates in the developed world."
There is no legitimacy to claims that people won't work in a socialist society.
@shavixmir saidI'm a man you just met in a bar, Shav. You say to me, "I don't make a lot of money, I'm just not programmed to excel. But that feller over there tells me you are a millionaire . Would you give me some of your money?"
Give us your take on dialectic materialism.
Go on!
How would dialectic materialism apply to you and me talking in a bar, maybe with a few folks sitting nearby wondering what my response should be, or will be? If Moonbus were sitting over there, I wonder what he would think my answer would be ?
You will not answer this premise. Watching you guys skip over issues is like watching dancers in a minstrel show.
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@AverageJoe1
No-one here is an expert on everything, I certainly am not. But I can write a clear and concise question, which is what this is. So to clarify even more for you, let us say I know nothing about what you speak, have a low IQ, but I do have this question.
So there is the question. Why can you not answer the question.The one about the guys in the bar? Granted, if you say that I should not have to give the guy any of my money, which I think is the correct answer, it will weaken your marxist stance, so you are between a rock and hard place.
I dont think you can respond to what I just wrote.
Edit: This concept Shav speaks of is rooted in Marx principles. You gonna study up on that like SHav wants us to? Geez
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@averagejoe1 said
Let's do this. Forget my use of the word socialism, let us just stipulate the concept that I present, which is dependence on government? All of you libs who are looking to the government to, well, give them money. There are many examples, the most recent being the losers who want their tuition loans paid off.
That should get us on the same page. So, having said t ...[text shortened]... at AvJoe has no concept of Socialism.
I am talking about govt dependence. Really creepy to me.
Forget my use of the word socialism
Do you do this on purpose Joe? Start a thread on a topic you dont like but also don't know anything about and then use murky and confusing definitions just to avoid the discussion?
This is maddening to read through.
@wildgrass saidI’m just not going to get an answer to the simple question. I asked one a month ago, and all responses were about me personally…..like Wildgrass is doing here.Forget my use of the word socialism
Do you do this on purpose Joe? Start a thread on a topic you dont like but also don't know anything about and then use murky and confusing definitions just to avoid the discussion?
This is maddening to read through.
I am most certainly avoiding nothing. Contrare’, I have whittled an element of socialism down into a simple question, so that we talk about a basic tenet of socialism without getting “murky and confusing definitions’ into the mix.
Should a hard working well-to-do citizen share, or somehow have to distribute, the money he has to someone that he might not even know? Someone to whom he is not indebted..?
It has to be unsatisfying to write about my personality. How bout the question? Shav is watching…….
@averagejoe1 saidYou can't expect answers to questions when you aren't consistent with word definitions.
I’m just not going to get an answer to the simple question. I asked one a month ago, and all responses were about me personally…..like Wildgrass is doing here.
I am most certainly avoiding nothing. Contrare’, I have whittled an element of socialism down into a simple question, so that we talk about a basic tenet of socialism without getting “murky and confusing def ...[text shortened]... It has to be unsatisfying to write about my personality. How bout the question? Shav is watching…….
Also that's a dumb question.
What if I asked a question like... Should the top scientist in their field shave their head?
And then I get all hot and bothered because no one takes my question seriously.
And then I get everyone confused because I wasn't really referring to what anyone else thinks I am.
@averagejoe1 saidNoted.
And to make it easy, we can all stipulate that AvJoe has no concept of Socialism.
I'll bookmark this page for future reference, when you slide back to equating any and every government program that doesn't line your own pockets as "socialism"
@wildgrass saidBut why cannot my question be taken seriously?
You can't expect answers to questions when you aren't consistent with word definitions.
Also that's a dumb question.
What if I asked a question like... Should the top scientist in their field shave their head?
And then I get all hot and bothered because no one takes my question seriously.
And then I get everyone confused because I wasn't really referring to what anyone else thinks I am.
If I got Vivify to ask the question, or my cook, would that make a difference.
?