How The Game is Played

@wildgrass said
The term 'open border' has a definition - it's not a metaphor for anything. Of course people still get across, we have international air travel and what not.

I don't disparage breitbart but I also don't understand your point in posting this article.

For one, people that fly in do so LEGALLY with a passport. This is fine! we just want to stop the ILLEGAL entry.

The Breibart article was to show you that Trump and Obrador did in fact have an agreement to prevent
the entry of caravans into Mexico from Guatemala. You had questioned if the did. They did. All gone now, lib media never mentioned it.

@earl-of-trumps said
For one, people that fly in do so LEGALLY with a passport. This is fine! we just want to stop the ILLEGAL entry.

The Breibart article was to show you that Trump and Obrador did in fact have an agreement to prevent
the entry of caravans into Mexico from Guatemala. You had questioned if the did. They did. All gone now, lib media never mentioned it.

What effect did it have on the number of illegal immigrants currently in the country? Certainly there must be estimates. I am not questioning the existence of an agreement. I am questioning the efficacy. If it worked, we should keep it. If it didn't, maybe it was a waste of political capitol.

It is not fine for people to come into America with temporary visas and stay here forever. That's half our illegal population now. Interior enforcement of immigration policy is really important.

@earl-of-trumps said
In other words, stop building the wall! Don't try to fortify it, noooooooooooooo. Abandom it.

Liberal propaganda. 😆

If people are trying to break into your home, don't do anything to stop it, just let them in. Uh huh

Here we have earl speaking of present-day decisions .....there are people who are illegally trying to get into our country today. Secondly, we all want 1M people a year. Two Facts to deal with. Collateral to that are these children, 20,000,000 of them.
So, present day issues. Why in the WORLD is all this discussion about Trump...and Sonhouse isn't even here!!!! All this comparison of Obama and Trump, blah blah blah. Who cares? We are where we are, we have to deal with it.
So Earl says above makes a a sarcastic comment about the wall. He is correct, he is suggesting to deal with today's problem. Trump left.

@earl-of-trumps said
Let me say this, Wildgrass...

When Trump was president, he made a deal with Obrador of Mexico not to allow the Caravans that start
in Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala etc. into Mexico, as that is illegal in the country of Mexico, and Obrador cooperated.

Then what happened... Biden is elected and there has been an open border in Mexico and the US ever since. Disgus ...[text shortened]... what she has done...? made appointments to visit Mexico and Guatemala soon. How sad is this.

And that agreement differs from this one ................................. how?:

"The Biden administration has secured agreements for Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala to tighten their borders and stem the flow of migration, Special Assistant to the President for Immigration for the Domestic Policy Council Tyler Moran told MSNBC on Monday.

"We've secured agreements for them to put more troops on their own border. Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala have all agreed to do this. That not only is going to prevent the traffickers, and the smugglers, and cartels that take advantage of the kids on their way here, but also to protect those children," Moran said."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/politics/biden-agreement-mexico-honduras-guatemala/index.html

Could you please state when any agreements between the US and Mexico in existence were abrogated by the Biden administration? Thanks in advance.

@earl-of-trumps said
For one, people that fly in do so LEGALLY with a passport. This is fine! we just want to stop the ILLEGAL entry.

The Breibart article was to show you that Trump and Obrador did in fact have an agreement to prevent
the entry of caravans into Mexico from Guatemala. You had questioned if the did. They did. All gone now, lib media never mentioned it.

"All gone now"? Another falsehood:

"Mexico recently deployed police, national guard members and immigration officers to its border with Guatemala. Their stated objective was to protect child migrants, who the National Immigration Institute said were being “used by criminal organisations as a safe passage document” for transiting Mexico. (Mexico recently enacted a law forbidding children to be held in migrant detention centres.)

On Friday police in riot gear, immigration agents and national guard members marched through the streets of Tuxtla Gutiérrez, the capital of southern Chiapas state, in a show of force.

Mexico also restricted non-essential travel on its northern and southern borders for health reasons – a rare occurrence in a country, which has not suspended flights from countries hit hard by Covid-19 and has not demanded Covid-19 tests for entry."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/23/joe-biden-mexico-migrants

@wildgrass - said
What effect did it have on the number of illegal immigrants currently in the country? Certainly there must be estimates.

I really don't know, WG, but I don't think it is important. All I can say is, ALL caravans stopped forming.
The originators/offenders with these caravans came mostly from Guatemala and Cost Rica, as I recall.
Food for thought, in order for a caravan to get to Mexico, it must go through Guatemala.

@AverageJoe1 - said

So Earl says above makes a a sarcastic comment about the wall. He is correct, he is suggesting to deal with today's problem. Trump left.

A bigger problem than we know.

@no1marauder - said
(Mexico recently enacted a law forbidding children to be held in migrant detention centres.)

Excellent!! but you must admit, children are still a huge part of the equation, many unaccompanied. how sad.

@earl-of-trumps said
@wildgrass - said
What effect did it have on the number of illegal immigrants currently in the country? Certainly there must be estimates.

I really don't know, WG, but I don't think it is important. All I can say is, ALL caravans stopped forming.
The originators/offenders with these caravans came mostly from Guatemala and Cost Rica, as I recall.
Food for thought, in order for a caravan to get to Mexico, it must go through Guatemala.

Why not? It is important. It is really the only thing that is important.

What works and what doesn't work? Strip away perceptions and media coverage (swarms and hordes and the impending zombie apocalypse) and the other BS that infects our culture and identify the tools and rhetoric and policies that actually work! Why don't you think it's important to know if it works or not?

@wildgrass said
Why not? It is important. It is really the only thing that is important.

What works and what doesn't work? Strip away perceptions and media coverage (swarms and hordes and the impending zombie apocalypse) and the other BS that infects our culture and identify the tools and rhetoric and policies that actually work! Why don't you think it's important to know if it works or not?

Well, WG, I don't worry about water under the bridge because you cannot go back in time and fix it.
It certainly appeared that the "Caravan" problem went from some unknown number of events to ZERO.

So going forward, the leak had stopped. That is what really counts, to me.

@earl-of-trumps said
Well, WG, I don't worry about water under the bridge because you cannot go back in time and fix it.
It certainly appeared that the "Caravan" problem went from some unknown number of events to ZERO.

So going forward, the leak had stopped. That is what really counts, to me.

Again, Earl, I disagree. If you think that illegal immigrants currently living in the US are "water under the bridge" then just give them citizenship and be done with it. Of course, this ignores the obvious ideas that we can deport illegal immigrants. We know where they work.

@wildgrass said
Again, Earl, I disagree. If you think that illegal immigrants currently living in the US are "water under the bridge" then just give them citizenship and be done with it. Of course, this ignores the obvious ideas that we can deport illegal immigrants. We know where they work.

I understand what you are saying, WG, and there is a consideration there, but it is small. The huge problem,
plugging the hole, had been done. And that problem of dealing with the ones that made it in would only
have been exacerbated had the hole not been plugged. So I see it as one problem at a time.
Plug the hole, then concentrate on the situation of the illegals that made it in.

WildGrass, here is a good analogy...

Your boat is letting water in. Is your first course of action to bail out the water, or is it to plug the leak?
Of course it is to plug the leak *then* bail the water out. you see? The first step had been taken by Trump/Obrador.

Then what happened? Biden undid it 😳 😳

@earl-of-trumps said
I understand what you are saying, WG, and there is a consideration there, but it is small. The huge problem,
plugging the hole, had been done. And that problem of dealing with the ones that made it in would only
have been exacerbated had the hole not been plugged. So I see it as one problem at a time.
Plug the hole, then concentrate on the situation of the illegals ...[text shortened]... you see? The first step had been taken by Trump/Obrador.

Then what happened? Biden undid it 😳 😳

Maybe we disagree there. I don't think the hole was plugged to begin with. Is there evidence that it was?

@wildgrass said
Maybe we disagree there. I don't think the hole was plugged to begin with. Is there evidence that it was?

My friend, if you apply a tourniquet to a bad wound and it still bleeds a little, do you throw the damn tourniquet away?
Of course not, you do your best with what you have. Stop the bleeding as much as you can.

Now, the hole at the border was NOT completely plugged but damn, did Trump ever slow the traffic down.
All the people south of Mexico knew not to bother even forming caravans to America because Mexico
was not going to let them through. Brilliant! Stops people that want the illegals to get in from blaming Trump for it.

So you have the evidence, and did have since I posted the link with the story that Obridor was complicit with Trump's wishes.

I don't know what to say, WG, I showed you what happened but you seem unsatisfied.
You also see that as soon as Trump was out, they formed a caravan with over 1,000 that went right into Mexico and UP.
Please! had the Trump policy been enforced by Obridor, this never would have happened. Blame Biden.

And we see the bad ink Biden is getting over this surge of border crossers, and he did it ANYWAY.

@suzianne said
When you can look at what you've written here and blame the corporations themselves, instead of the immigrants, or even Joe Biden, then our work would be done here.

Not until.

The 'work' of the liberals will Never be done. You have a 500 year plan, as do the mideastern madmen. I hate it, I just hate it. For you, and for everyone.