@wildgrasssaid If you think that I "want this" in reference to illegal border crossings then you have not been paying attention here. But I do want solutions that work, not bluster and fear mongering and fake news. What works? Are we really going along with the premise that a family that walks 2,500 miles from Venezuela is going to turn around because of a wall?
I'm skeptical of the bluster. Show me the results.
If their next door neighbors in Venezuela get a phone call (how do they charge their batteries?) saying to hold up, there is a huge impassable fence here,,,,,yes, it will stem the tide.
Y'all will go ahead and let the covid-laced illegals in for now, but the wall would eventually work. You know it would. Imagine if Trump were president and the wall is being finished this week. Nirvana!! Have you seen today's news of HOW MUCH drugs is being confiscated? You got children??
@shallow-bluesaid Yup. That's exactly the problem with the economy today: imbeciles like you believing that backseat drivers like stock traders contribute to the economy.
Doesn't deserve a response. Looney stuff on the forum! You are saying, I believe, that your broker, who advises you on how to invest and grow your money, does not contribute to the economy? Were he not there at your beck and call, I think you will agree that you would miss him, and thus, that he is a person of value........thus, contributing to your economy, and it follows, to 'the ' economy.
@earl-of-trumpssaid I have no idea why you leave business owners (stock holders) as not being part of the producers.
Without them, there would be no/few useful "workers".
See USSR, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, etc etc
Actually, I was just kidding, of course I know why you refuse to give them any credit at all.
Gee, how do any work get done before there were stockholders?
Wildgrass is playing a tongue-in-cheek game now.
I gave the man all the pertinent info. It is clear. The border received one massive caravan of invaders.
I am sure the introduction of a Democrat into the white house made everyone south of the border go, "Finally!"
And the caravans came forth. Also, Jotin' Joe Biden has made it a done deal to increa ...[text shortened]... s.com/2021/05/03/us/politics/biden-refugee-limit.html
NY times, libs, don't blame link this time.
So what? Are you seriously claiming the US can't easily handle 62,500 refugees?
@averagejoe1said Your very first sentence here, that the 'workers; are the producers? Naaa. As Earl says above, it takes the corporate village,,,,,the board, the investors, the stockholders. IF the corp is using my money to invest in the company, then I am a producer as well.
But here is the kicker. Marauder, your phrase above is EXACTLY how Marx would phrase it, it is how he would refer to 'The Workers'. 'Nuff said. You have all the earmarks of a Marxist.
So how did any work get done before there were stockholders?
The whole capitalist system is an arbitrary one imposed on the People; it is neither a necessary or terribly efficient way to organize an economy. What it mostly does is insure a relative few capture the vast majority of the benefits of a society (though progressive policies instituted in most "advanced" societies slightly ameliorate the worst aspects of the system).
Critiques of the capitalist system predate Marx. Bakunin and others correctly predicted that a system based on Marx's ideas would tend to be totalitarian. In principle, it would be accurate to describe me as a "libertarian socialist" or what was commonly known as an "anarchist" in the late 1800s (http://www.spunk.org/library/intro/faq/sp001547/secA1.html#seca13). However, since the State is unlikely to be replaced any time soon, in practice you can all me a supporter of Lockean Natural Rights theory who believes Man's social structures should be compatible with his empathic, equalitarian nature.
@averagejoe1said Doesn't deserve a response. Looney stuff on the forum! You are saying, I believe, that your broker, who advises you on how to invest and grow your money, does not contribute to the economy? Were he not there at your beck and call, I think you will agree that you would miss him, and thus, that he is a person of value........thus, contributing to your economy, and it follows, to 'the ' economy.
Brokers "produce" nothing. Trading one set of funny looking pieces of paper for other funny looking pieces of paper adds nothing real to the economy.
@averagejoe1said If their next door neighbors in Venezuela get a phone call (how do they charge their batteries?) saying to hold up, there is a huge impassable fence here,,,,,yes, it will stem the tide.
Y'all will go ahead and let the covid-laced illegals in for now, but the wall would eventually work. You know it would. Imagine if Trump were president and the wall is being finishe ...[text shortened]... Nirvana!! Have you seen today's news of HOW MUCH drugs is being confiscated? You got children??
They're all gung ho to go when their neighbors are saying "well, you'll have to walk thousands of miles, endure sub-freezing temperatures with no shelter, go days without fresh water, hike a few mountain ranges, ford rivers, risk kidnapping or starving"
But then, that same person that still decides that it's worth it to to take all those life-threatening risks is going to be deterred because of a wall? They've climbed mountains and dodged drug cartels and swam raging rivers but they can't climb over a wall? I'm skeptical.
@no1maraudersaid So what? Are you seriously claiming the US can't easily handle 62,500 refugees?
USA can handle a million a year. It’s just that the dem administration wants millions more. It is in the papers! Even the mean AvgJoe would welcome (vetted) 1,000,000 each year.
@no1maraudersaid So how did any work get done before there were stockholders?
The whole capitalist system is an arbitrary one imposed on the People; it is neither a necessary or terribly efficient way to organize an economy. What it mostly does is insure a relative few capture the vast majority of the benefits of a society (though progressive policies instituted in most "advanced" soci ...[text shortened]... ry who believes Man's social structures should be compatible with his empathic, equalitarian nature.
Marauder, stockbroking it’s just another business that you can elect to not use. What they do in Wall Street is what they do, having nothing to do with you. How else could they average man buy into a piece of a company? I imagine that as you type that, you have a 401(k) which means you own many pieces of companies like Apple. This logic falls right into line with chiding corporations while you drive around in corporate made cars and eat corporate made potato chips. This is why I say that you Fellers wet your beds all the time, it’s very confusing.
Your lambasting of capitalism should probably be on another thread. It would be a good discussion. I do find it disconcerting when you use the phrase ‘the state,’ so yes we know you have a Marxist mind . As to your link about the 1800s, I really do not care what people were thinking in the 1800s I think more about what people were thinking this afternoon, and what they will be thinking in the morning. One of us makes more sense than the other ,
@wildgrasssaid They're all gung ho to go when their neighbors are saying "well, you'll have to walk thousands of miles, endure sub-freezing temperatures with no shelter, go days without fresh water, hike a few mountain ranges, ford rivers, risk kidnapping or starving"
But then, that same person that still decides that it's worth it to to take all those life-threatening risks is going t ...[text shortened]... ains and dodged drug cartels and swam raging rivers but they can't climb over a wall? I'm skeptical.
First, they don’t ‘have’ to walk anywhere . It is a choice they make .
Secondly, regarding the wall, many engineers and sociologists and acrobats met for months designing ‘the best’ wall to deter invaders. I would disagree with you, they could not “climb over’ that wall.
@averagejoe1said Marauder, stockbroking it’s just another business that you can elect to not use. What they do in Wall Street is what they do, having nothing to do with you. How else could they average man buy into a piece of a company? I imagine that as you type that, you have a 401(k) which means you own many pieces of companies like Apple. This logic falls right into line with chiding ...[text shortened]... fternoon, and what they will be thinking in the morning. One of us makes more sense than the other ,
The point is "what they do" isn't actually producing anything tangible. If every stockbroker magically disappeared tomorrow, on Tuesday we'd have just as many buildings, factories, tools etc. and we'd be able to produce just as much.
@averagejoe1said First, they don’t ‘have’ to walk anywhere . It is a choice they make .
Secondly, regarding the wall, many engineers and sociologists and acrobats met for months designing ‘the best’ wall to deter invaders. I would disagree with you, they could not “climb over’ that wall.
Of COURSE they can surmount a wall with devices, it is not a perfect science. We are talking about a Wall per se, which have always been the deterrent of choice for 10,000 years. Some will get over it. We will observe with cameras and drones, and send a humvee to run them off! If you were charged with establishing a 'deterrent', what would be your idea to stop an invasion of our borders? A moat full of alligtors???
@no1maraudersaid The point is "what they do" isn't actually producing anything tangible. If every stockbroker magically disappeared tomorrow, on Tuesday we'd have just as many buildings, factories, tools etc. and we'd be able to produce just as much.
Really? You might want to re-think this comment. Me, I just opened an E-Trade account for my granddaughter as a graduation present, to teach her about investing. To make money in her sleep. Can you tell us all how, without a broker such as ETrade, I could have otherwise done that? Don't go esoteric, now, too early in the morning for philosophy.
PS< Marauder. Produce anything tangible??? If Sonhouse visits a lawyer today for advice about something, and the lawyer tells him his best course, and charges him $500/hour, lawyer has not produced anything tangible.
Get a grip.
@averagejoe1said Really? You might want to re-think this comment. Me, I just opened an E-Trade account for my granddaughter as a graduation present, to teach her about investing. To make money in her sleep. Can you tell us all how, without a broker such as ETrade, I could have otherwise done that? Don't go esoteric, now, too early in the morning for philosophy.
PS< Marauder. P ...[text shortened]... best course, and charges him $500/hour, lawyer has not produced anything tangible.
Get a grip.
Money is funny looking pieces of paper. It has value only because we say so.
No lawyers don't produce anything tangible either. Most of the money that flows to them in the US does so from the wealthy and corporations so that they can figure out ways to get them wealthier by using the innumerable ways the system favors them.
How The Game is Played
09 May '21 15:23
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