Debates has gone down hill

@contenchess said
Here's one for you.

When the USA is worse than Romania you can judge.

Well if the USA is worse off for the average person, than say an Australian, does that mean Australians get to comment?

@kmax87 said
Well if the USA is worse off for the average person, than say an Australian, does that mean Australians get to comment?

I would say being forced into your home by your government makes you worse.

@kmax87 said
Well if the USA is worse off for the average person, than say an Australian, does that mean Australians get to comment?

For your consideration

While on the surface, living in Australia and the US appears similar, there are plenty of differences.

Australia has a far higher minimum wage, never ending welfare and less poverty. This also contributes to Australia being far safer. Australia got rid of guns, America loves guns. This also contributes to Australia being far safer than America.

Australia has universal healthcare. Being sick does not bankrupt people in Australia, while every American is an illness with insurance decline away from bankruptcy.

Australian university system is very strong, and entrance is merit based. Australian universities will fail students out, so a degree has some merit. Average American universities won’t fire their customers, and wealth can trump intelligence in gaining entry.

Australia has much warmer weather. It has never snowed in Sydney. The US has varied weather depending on region. Most of the population lives in regions that get some snow in winter.

Australians have more of a global outlook on life than Americans. Australians are aware that Australia is not no 1 in the world in many areas. Americans are taught America is no 1 in every facet of life, and are generally unaware when other countries may be stronger than they are. This makes politically improving the country in areas of need far more difficult.

Australian cities on average have better public transit than average American cities. New York, Chicago, and San Francisco are exceptions and have good public transit.

Australian government run functions are for the most part reasonably run. Education, healthcare, to getting drivers licenses, the government can be frustrating, but functions. US government run functions tend to degenerate into incompetent corrupt entities almost impossible to deal with. Try to renew a drivers license in Australia, it is pleasant and can take 10 minutes. Good luck doing the same at an American DMV.

Domestic flying is far cheaper in Australia than America. This is mostly due to foreigners being unable to own airlines in the US, and the unionization of American Airlines. The Australian market deregulated in the 90s. Foreigners can own airlines, Australia let an Australian run airline go out of business. Flying is nicer and cheaper than American equivalents.

And while Australians and Americans enjoy about the same number of public holidays per year, when it comes to paid time off, Aussies get 4 weeks off, which works out to 4 weeks pay plus an additional leave loading of 17% of 4 weeks normal pay added on, whereas Americans get one hour of paid time off for every 40 hrs worked (8 hr days), which means after 50 weeks, they accrue 50 hrs or about 6.25 days paid time off. Some states are not that generous though.

But I'm not here to brag, just giving everyone something to think about. Most of this I found on Quora btw.

@moonbus said
1. Somebody lied/ the govt cannot be trusted.
2. The Russians did not meddle in the 2016 election.
3. Somebody did meddle in the 2020 election.

Isn't there something else to talk about here?

I think you have a problem with debates when they expose the ugly truth you don't want to accept.

Fauci lied many times. Since he is part of government and people have lost all confidence in him except for a hand full of democrats, the government cannot be trusted. He would not have his job if government could be trusted.

There is no evidence Russia meddled in the 2016 election. Crowdstrike admitted under oath they had no evidence Russia hacked the DNC. The whole debacle was started because of an unconfirmed rumor, no evidence at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_Hurricane_(FBI_investigation)

Somebody is always meddling in elections. Voter fraud is documented in every election cycle. It doesn't mean it is enough to change the outcome of the election, but election meddling happens often. The USA meddles in foreign elections more than any other nation. The CIA got Yeltsin elected. That was meddling that altered the outcome of that election.

The sooner you accept these facts the sooner we can move on to other things.

@kmax87
I like these little comparisons and find it interesting to see what other people perceive. Here are my perspectives on your list:

===Australia has a far higher minimum wage, never ending welfare and less poverty.===

Welfare seems pretty darn extensive here and I don't think min wage jobs are really meant to be sole household incomes (they're often kids or second incomes), but so far as it goes, that's probably true.

===This also contributes to Australia being far safer. Australia got rid of guns, America loves guns. This also contributes to Australia being far safer than America.===

Yeah; gun violence is a big problem in some US areas; though I'm not sure making guns illegal is going to help much. I imagine most gun crimes are with illegal guns in any case. Of course, it depends where you live. Where I live, there is no gun violence (and almost no violent crime of any sort).

===Australia has universal healthcare. Being sick does not bankrupt people in Australia, while every American is an illness with insurance decline away from bankruptcy.===

Okay; but for people with insurance, I don't see why a decline should be likely. But yes, people without insurance (who make too much for Medicaid) can be bankrupted by a medical problem. That affects about 10% of people, I guess.

===Australian university system is very strong, and entrance is merit based. Australian universities will fail students out, so a degree has some merit. Average American universities won’t fire their customers, and wealth can trump intelligence in gaining entry.===

Anyone can get into and through US college, true. But I don't know that a university degree has a tremendous amount of independent significance anyway (they stats that show higher incomes for degreed people are probably more correlation than causation). I'm not sure whether it's better to have trouble getting into university if you want to go.

===Australia has much warmer weather. It has never snowed in Sydney. The US has varied weather depending on region. Most of the population lives in regions that get some snow in winter.===

I like the cool weather. It gets a bit much in January and February sometimes, but I'm never moving to a place with no autumnal foliage.

===Australians have more of a global outlook on life than Americans. Australians are aware that Australia is not no 1 in the world in many areas. Americans are taught America is no 1 in every facet of life, and are generally unaware when other countries may be stronger than they are. This makes politically improving the country in areas of need far more difficult.===

Only idiots believe that there's something inherently superior about Americans. Sure we may beat our chest a bit, such as when teams beat their chest about how good their football teams are, but any half-intelligent person understands that the US is not number 1 in everything. Seems more like a stereotype.

===Australian cities on average have better public transit than average American cities. New York, Chicago, and San Francisco are exceptions and have good public transit.===

The cities that need public transit have public transit. If a city is decentralized and car-friendly enough (and keep in mind that cars and petrol are relatively cheap in the US) to not have a demand for public transit, then it never gets built. Like anything else, it's market choices. I don't see this as such a negative. Of course NY has a good subway system. It NEEDS one. Without it, it would be impossible to get around. Of course Miami doesn't have one. It's basically a huge sprawling beach with enormous and broad roadways and everyone would rather drive.

===Australian government run functions are for the most part reasonably run. Education, healthcare, to getting drivers licenses, the government can be frustrating, but functions. US government run functions tend to degenerate into incompetent corrupt entities almost impossible to deal with. Try to renew a drivers license in Australia, it is pleasant and can take 10 minutes. Good luck doing the same at an American DMV.===

Bureaucracy is a problem everywhere, but this may be a bit anachronistic. You can renew your driver's license by mail now and the DMV is by appointment with short waits due to COVID. You rarely have to go to the DMV anyway. Except to take my daughter for a permit test in March, I haven't had to visit one in over a decade. Sure it would be more efficient if run by Amazon, but I don't recall having major problems with bureaucracy in basic transactions with these things.

===Domestic flying is far cheaper in Australia than America. This is mostly due to foreigners being unable to own airlines in the US, and the unionization of American Airlines. The Australian market deregulated in the 90s. Foreigners can own airlines, Australia let an Australian run airline go out of business. Flying is nicer and cheaper than American equivalents.===

Is it? Hmmm. Flying domestically seems pretty cheap to me. I'm flying round trip to Phoenix next week for $269 round trip and it would be less if I'd be willing to fly Spirit or Frontier (I'm not). If you're a little flexible on dates, you can usually go from NY to Florida for about $200 rt. Is that a lot? Matter of perspective, I guess.

===And while Australians and Americans enjoy about the same number of public holidays per year, when it comes to paid time off, Aussies get 4 weeks off, which works out to 4 weeks pay plus an additional leave loading of 17% of 4 weeks normal pay added on, whereas Americans get one hour of paid time off for every 40 hrs worked (8 hr days), which means after 50 weeks, they accrue 50 hrs or about 6.25 days paid time off. Some states are not that generous though.===

Isn't that a matter to be determined by the employers and employees? Not sure why it's government's business.


I imagine things are okay un Australia (except for your ridiculous COVID lockdowns). Is it better than the US? Depends where and who you are, I'm sure. These generalizations, though, only take you so far.

Australia sucks.

@sh76 said
@kmax87
I like these little comparisons and find it interesting to see what other people perceive. Here are my perspectives on your list:

I imagine things are okay un Australia (except for your ridiculous COVID lockdowns). Is it better than the US? Depends where and who you are, I'm sure. These generalizations, though, only take you so far.

Just having a bit of fun. 😉

But for full disclosure, this was the other side of the comparison on Quora. I'm not sure if you agree.

On the plus side for the USA;

An average wage earner in most of America can afford to own a home (with mortgage), and drive a newish car. In most of Australia, an average wage earner today will never own a home. Average home prices in Australia are 8x average income. In America, they are 4x average income.

Most Americans have far more consumer spending power than they would in Australia in the same job. Australians often earn more than Americans in the same profession, but cost of living in Australia means that Americans can buy more with that income.

Almost everything in America costs less than the same product/service in Australia.

It is far easier to start a successful business in America. This is why most of the world’s largest companies are American. Australia does not produce world class companies (the largest are banks, telcos, and mining firms). The Australian culture is more interested in subsidizing sports than supporting entrepreneurs.

American unemployment benefits are a proportion of your income before unemployment. This can be enough to pay the bills in unemployment. In Australia, the dole is minimal, and not of much use to a middle income earner. While the Australian dole lasts for as long as you are unemployed, US unemployment benefits last a fixed period of time.

America has more opportunity in most professions due to the population being so large.

America has very large very affordable cities with significant career opportunities. Metropolitan areas like Dallas, Chicago, Houston, and Atlanta are larger than Sydney, Australia’s largest city, have similar income levels to Sydney, yet have cost of living approx. 30% of Sydney. Australia has very limited big cities, and no similarly affordable cities with global career opportunities.

And I will agree with that last point. Sydney's house prices and rents are ridiculously high, even for ordinary nondescript.

Got it, if you want to make minimum wage or be on welfare go to Australia.

@kevcvs57 said
Hahaha I think you’ve misspelt China. The US is declining into a 2nd rate nation too busy being manipulated into infighting amongst itself.
The only reason we constantly end up involved in nothing burger topics derived from the US culture wars is you guys cannot stop talking about yourselves like teenage girls on speed.

That and the Great Firewall

@sh76 said
@kmax87
I like these little comparisons and find it interesting to see what other people perceive. Here are my perspectives on your list:

===Australia has a far higher minimum wage, never ending welfare and less poverty.===

Welfare seems pretty darn extensive here and I don't think min wage jobs are really meant to be sole household incomes (they're often kids or second i ...[text shortened]... he US? Depends where and who you are, I'm sure. These generalizations, though, only take you so far.

"I don't think min wage jobs are really meant to be sole household incomes (they're often kids or second incomes"
first of all, google what the age of minimum wage workers is. Don't know what 50's movies you get your info from but it's not the reality. Like 88% are older than 20. A third are over 40.

As for "meant as a second income" why would that be any justification. Nobody takes a second job because it's so much fun to not see your family. One takes a second job because one is forced to. Because the first job is at or very close to minimum wage.

"though I'm not sure making guns illegal is going to help much."
Helped in Australia.

"but for people with insurance, I don't see why a decline should be likely"
John Deere wants to cut off health benefits for striking workers (just the most recent example) . Jobs being outsourced or the employer simply buying the cheapest insurance they are legally allowed to is quite likely.

In a civilized country a person's life should not be in the hands of a corporation

@moonbus said
I don't contend that China is a nicer place to live for the average citizen. I do contend that it's an economic powerhouse which will very likely surpass the USA in the next 50 years in terms of output and world influence. They are reaching out to African countries, for example, with enormous projects which will reap huge benefits for themselves (access to natural resources), ...[text shortened]... illions in futile foreign wars (Iraq, Afghanistan), alienating potential allies (such as the Kurds).

So.....has Biden noticed, or is he too busy with the progressives, creating dependent people. You see, you are of course correct, but Biden is seemingly going to let it happen. He won’t be in office when it does, though.

@moonbus said
It's a continent. That's like writing off Africa or Eurasia.

What about Romania? Could one even find it on a map?

@averagejoe1 said
What about Romania? Could one even find it on a map?

Just look for the turd. 😏

@kmax87 said
Just having a bit of fun. 😉

But for full disclosure, this was the other side of the comparison on Quora. I'm not sure if you agree.

On the plus side for the USA;

An average wage earner in most of America can afford to own a home (with mortgage), and drive a newish car. In most of Australia, an average wage earner today will never own a home. Average home prices in ...[text shortened]... at last point. Sydney's house prices and rents are ridiculously high, even for ordinary nondescript.

I COMMEND Kev for showing both sides, well done. And amazing. A rarity.
Thankyou, that some may learn.
And thanks for “...more opportunities due to the population being so large”. I have hammered that to the Netherlandsrs, but their closed minds don’t get it. Denmark may have 5M people, California 80M.

@metal-brain said
I think you have a problem with debates when they expose the ugly truth you don't want to accept.

Fauci lied many times. Since he is part of government and people have lost all confidence in him except for a hand full of democrats, the government cannot be trusted. He would not have his job if government could be trusted.

There is no evidence Russia meddled in the ...[text shortened]... me of that election.

The sooner you accept these facts the sooner we can move on to other things.

Your 'facts' are anything but.