the clans - what can be done

the clans - what can be done

Clans

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Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605596
100d
1 edit

The post that was quoted here has been removed
It may just be me, but I think it is time you put you personal differences aside, as it is getting you no where or sympathy anymore.

TRY coming up with solutions on what can be done in the Clan Challenges, and everyone will listen to what you say I am sure.

-VR

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
100d

@Very-Rusty And you should start minding your own business.

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605596
99d

@lstcyr said
@Very-Rusty And you should start minding your own business.
Perhaps you are correct, but myself along with others have to watch your whining. It does get tiresome.

-VR

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
99d

@Very-Rusty I don’t think this constitutes minding your own business.

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605596
99d

@lstcyr said
@Very-Rusty I don’t think this constitutes minding your own business.
I didn't know you were a Moderator. If not you don't have the authority to ask me to do something. 🙂

Now run along and have a Great Day!

-VR

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
99d

@Very-Rusty Still not minding your own business.

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605596
98d

@lstcyr said
@Very-Rusty Still not minding your own business.
Appears you still have a large chip on your shoulder! 🙂 Learn to roll with the punches and you'll fair out better.

-VR

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
98d

@Very-Rusty Maybe French is your language since you don't seem to understand English. Occupez-vous de vos affaires

Dave

S.Yorks.England

Joined
18 Apr 10
Moves
84347
98d

Once more a thread strays off the topic and becomes a forum for personal vendetta's.
No wonder people stop reading the forums.

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
97d

@venda guess it doesn’t stop people from commenting on them though.

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605596
97d

@lstcyr said
@venda guess it doesn’t stop people from commenting on them though.
If you stopped with your personal vendetta's and posted something that could help the Clan Challenges, then you'd be more successful in your posting.

-VR

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605596
97d
1 edit

@lstcyr said
@Very-Rusty Maybe French is your language since you don't seem to understand English. Occupez-vous de vos affaires
My best bet is you had to look up the French part. 🙂 😛

Are you bi-lingual? Êtes-vous bilingue


-VR

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
97d

@Very-Rusty I thought I was helping by telling you to MYOB. If you’d stop replying about something that isn’t your business and posted about clan challenges that would help.

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
97d

@Very-Rusty I did look it up because I don’t use French much anymore. I’ve lost the correct use of the language. I did have 12 years of it in school and grew up in a bilingual family and community.

R
Standard memberRemoved

Joined
10 Jan 22
Moves
55635
96d

Well, such an important thread has degenerated into name calling and petty nick picking. Tweedledee and Tweedledum at the fore.
Now I have plenty of time on my hands, but don’t tend to waste that on the forums, as raising challenges for IVV, herding the IVV cats, and playing games is far more enjoyable and profitable … but I thought I’d add both some insight and some spice to the thread.
Incidentally, feel free to thumbs down or reply …. I won’t come back to the forum for a few weeks.
Onward and upward

On the subject of Clans throwing challenges against IVV
This is both laughable and insulting. To suggest that Clan leaders would set up their players to lose against IVV …. and that players would waste their time playing chess only to deliberately lose. Its also insulting to IVV players who I can assure are a very honest decent group of players, most of whom have been with IVV through thick and thin over the years.

On the subject of clans refusing to play ‘Breaking Bad and Metallica’
Again, laughable that any clan leader would take my advice and boycott another clan. All the clan leaders are smart enough to decide who they play, and I would humbly suggest that if clans won’t play you, you need to go look in the mirror to find the answer

On the subject of a ‘Clan Rating System’
Everyone knows this makes sense. While it won’t completely eradicate sandbagging, it will reduce it significantly. Incidentally, it’s irrelevant whether there is a ‘CER’ as far as matching up challenges is concerned. Its blindingly obvious just by looking at Curr v TER v 1 year which players are currently too low!
Take this guy @papabeargary
Now I can’t comment why he’s dropped so low (I’ve played him loads of times over the years, know he’s an 1800+ player, and he’s as genuine a player as I’ve met here), and so when I see his current rating I know that there are no players within 200 points I can match up against, so I just ignore for now. Simple. All Clan Leaders have access to the same stats as me.
I use TER as my primary measure …. The TER was introduced for a reason, and to me it gives the best indicator of real strength (esp. when put alongside 5-year!!)

On the subject of ‘resigning games’
Sadly, there are too many players who are prepared to spin nugatory games out which a) prevents the points from being allocated and b) prevents new challenges being raised.
IVV players are asked to offer draws to opponents in these cases. If no response then if the games drag on for 4 weeks, then I ‘ask them to consider resigning so we can move on’. Some resign, others just press on to the bitter end. Now Vespin/Rusty will definitely kick these guys out (I know cos I was a BB member for a few weeks!!), but I won’t … I just don’t allocate them further games until their nugatory games are complete ….
Incidentally I know there are at least 15 IVV challenges (some large) that are won but with one or two redundant games remaining, some of which have been in that state for over a month ….. and there are c15 clans against whom we already have 3 open challenges …. Go figure

On the subject of why IVV are doing ok at the moment
Tbf it’s a bit of a surprise to us too! Plan this year was to get rid of the deadwood and recruit back up to 20, finish 3rd, then have a go in 2025. There’s no secret, there’s no magic, just a lot of challenges, many large, so high risk. Up until recently we had been playing with just 14 players …..

On the subject of ‘what can be done’
I’ve said elsewhere that there are a number of ways to help with clan system
-Introduce a clan rating system, adjusted only as a result of clan games
-Award points once a challenge is ‘won’ (someone else further up the thread posted this great solution), irrespective of whether nugatory games remain
-Remove the double whammy of losing points
-Award points to the losing clan based on games won
-Find a more qualitative points mechanism!!
The bottom line is that at the moment it’s still a quantity-based system, and the vast majority of decent clans/leaders don’t have the inclination/capacity/risk to work on this basis, nor have players who can play large volumes of games.

On the subject of ‘what went wrong’ with the clan system
As someone who witnessed this happening back in the 2000s, the decline started once one particular clan/leader realised that they could manipulate the system by doing 3 things – players sandbagging their ratings; rotating players in-and-out (thereby having up to 25 players contributing); sandbagging points into the next year once the title was won. The monopolisation had started and RHP condoned it. This is a fact.
Now there will be some on this thread who will take umbrage and stamp their juvenile feet, however, I was there and saw this happening, and nothing was done about it. So, I quit as did lots of players. From 20 pages of clans, we now have 4. There is no appetite to make things change, as demonstrated by the state of this particular thread, and that only a handful of clan leaders are contributing.

On the subject of ‘future of the clan system’
The clan system has been in decline for many years now, and its interesting that Russ has chosen not to step in. Over the years RHP itself has declined as members have moved to other chess sites that offer a far more functionally rich experience.
RHP has lost hundreds of clans since its heyday, the clan leagues disappeared, there is next-to-no real-time chess, and to my knowledge there has been no material improvements in functionality in the past 20 years?
In reality, the clan system is the only reason RHP exists. None of the other sites have anything that remotely compares. Once the clan system goes RHP goes too. Russ obviously knows this, and I can only surmise his thoughts/intentions. I know what I’d do if I was Russ. So now we have only 4 pages remaining.
In my view the above changes would certainly help improve competitiveness, but I’d bet a significant amount of money the current top 4 would remain the top 4 without moving to a qualitative points system.