the clans - what can be done

the clans - what can be done

Clans

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Joined
05 Jan 05
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682088
303d

i guess it is time to revisit the annual question of what can be done to improve the clan feature, it has been for too long the same clans in the top 4 or 5, various changes have been implemented but nothing has really changed overall, i would hate to see the clan feature die out but feels going that way as more players go down the clubs and tournaments route

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
303d

@Wycombe-Al We have to get Russ to add a clan rating. Without it, almost every other change will do nothing. IMHO.

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605603
301d

@lstcyr said
@Wycombe-Al We have to get Russ to add a clan rating. Without it, almost every other change will do nothing. IMHO.
That is a good point made, as many play private and tournaments just to get their rating down. I think when this was discussed before it was said it was not feasible for Russ to do? You and Al are both correct something has to be done as we are already down to 4 pages. A solution must be found or as feared eventually in the near future the Clan Challenges will die out.

-VR

David

Bristol, UK

Joined
29 Sep 08
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92696
299d

Abolishing this forum would be a good starting point. It's been the worst advertisement for the clan feature for some years.

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605603
299d

@xanathar said
Abolishing this forum would be a good starting point. It's been the worst advertisement for the clan feature for some years.
Perhaps if you had more than a clan of ONE YOURSELF, what you have to say may have more meaning.

-VR

David

Bristol, UK

Joined
29 Sep 08
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92696
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@very-rusty said
Perhaps if you had more than a clan of ONE YOURSELF, what you have to say may have more meaning.
Thank you for proving my point so perfectly.

N

Joined
27 Nov 22
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16467
299d

@very-rusty said
Perhaps if you had more than a clan of ONE YOURSELF, what you have to say may have more meaning.

-VR
The irony is palpable.

It would seem that if there is a real desire to improve the clan system, everyone's opinion would matter and be taken into account.

The default response always seems to be clan rating. Yes maybe. However it is not clear to me who will join the clan feature if there is a new clan rating. We are all already here. Where are we going to find 100 more players to create a half-page of 10 member clans, just because there is now a clan rating? Add those 100 new clan players and we have 4 1/2 pages of clans instead of 4.

Yes there used to be 16 pages of clans - but it was a very different online world in 2005. The clan feature then provided an opportunity that was just not as widely available as today. Today we have chess and teams and variations 24/7 on multiple platforms.

We need 2023 ideas to get more people trying our team play feature.

Maybe what keeps some people from investigating the clans further is the blatant hostility some proponents of the clan feature seem to consistently offer.

This response was not a push back on the idea that the Clan Forum is not a great ad for the product. No comment there one way or the other. Maybe its an idea worth considering?

No it goes (as usual) right to a personal attack on a stranger. When I say stranger - I mean chess player. 15 years on this site. Supporter of the clan feature. But apparently the wrong kind of supporter?

Maybe the clan forum could be a positive advertisement for the clan feature. Maybe it could be welcoming to everyone who has an idea or comment. Just a thought.

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
1943957
299d

@Napi I believe that part of the lack of clans is due to the difficulty in managing a clan. Some leaders spend a great deal of time setting up matches and, as a result, end up having unequal matches. The losers of those matches then get very discouraged and then stop running a clan. It shouldn’t be this hard. The present ratings can be manipulated too easily with no consequence. A clan rating can also be manipulated but the clan would be affected in their games. (I can reduce my overall rating by losing games against players in regular challenge or tournament games without hurting my clan. A clan rating would mean any losing would affect a clan match. Hence, probably done less frequently.)

N

Joined
27 Nov 22
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16467
299d

@lstcyr
Yes that makes sense, a dual-pronged approach. First fix what we can and stop hemorrhaging clans and clan members. Then address growing the feature.

Is the entire problem of why we are down to 4 pages of clans unequal matches? Or are there other issues? Is the only answer to unequal matches clan rating? No other possibilities? What about a clan rating floor? Seems like that alone would cut out a nice percentage of the unequal matches.

That is just one idea - I am sure there are others.

l

Victor, New York

Joined
08 May 09
Moves
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@Napi Not sure what you mean about a clan rating floor. The problem IMHO is that there are players whose rating is not accurate using the site rating. How they play in the clans is different in many cases to what their rating is overall. This is accomplished by their play in the non-clan part of the site. Whether that is intentional or not, it does affect the clans.

N

Joined
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@lstcy
By clan rating floor I mean like a Tournament Entry Rating. Your tournament entry rating is not your rating for all tournament games. It is a formula based on highest ratings for the last year. My current rating is 1368 but my Tournament Entry Rating is 1512.

My clan rating floor can be 1462 (TER -50) or 1450 maybe (TER -50 and round down to nearest 50 or something)

When I am matched against other clans I would match at 1450 or 1462 not 1368.

Change the +/- for challenges from 200 to 150 and use the clan rating floor and we would have less unequal matches. I am not saying this is the answer. I am saying maybe there is an answer.

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605603
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1 edit

@Napi,
The problem we have had for many years is people will play in tournaments and private games to lower their rating therefore lowering their rating floor.

IF we had a separate rating just for Clan Games (Challenges) it would more than likely solve this problem. IT is said this is not feasible to do? I am not saying everyone does it or even do it on purpose as the only way to get better is to play higher rated players and do tactical exercises.

-VR

N

Joined
27 Nov 22
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16467
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@Very-Rusty
I think you are correct.

The idea makes sense. It always has. The cost benefit is tough.

The programming is possible, it is not even that hard in theory. But it fundamentally changes how the site works on the back-end. For everyone - not just clan members (which as we keep saying is shrinking by the day).

If there is a less drastic step that might improve the situation even incrementally it has to be considered. If clan leaders want to get together and talk I am up for that.

Treat Everyone Equal

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Joined
04 Oct 06
Moves
605603
298d
1 edit

@napi said
@Very-Rusty
I think you are correct.

The idea makes sense. It always has. The cost benefit is tough.

The programming is possible, it is not even that hard in theory. But it fundamentally changes how the site works on the back-end. For everyone - not just clan members (which as we keep saying is shrinking by the day).

If there is a less drastic step that might improv ...[text shortened]... crementally it has to be considered. If clan leaders want to get together and talk I am up for that.
Although your idea is good on the surface.

We have people who are in clan who have another one man clan or sometimes multiple people in the clan. I don't believe these people should have ANY SAY! They will just talk about what good for them personally not the Clan Feature.

-VR

N

Joined
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16467
298d

@very-rusty said
Although your idea is good on the surface.

We have people who are in clan who have another one man clan or sometimes multiple people in the clan. I don't believe these people should have ANY SAY! They will just talk about what good for them personally not the Clan Feature.

-VR
While I am not sure I agree I see your point. Maybe it is not the "clan leaders" who need to talk. But someone does.

We need to get away from the "clan rating is the only answer" thinking and see what else might be out there. What can we do? What can I do?

When the only answer is - someone else needs to do something - we have the current stalemate.