There is nothing more powerful ...

Originally posted by Eladar
The family unit is the basic unit of society. If the government intrudes on the family without cause, it would be tyrrany.


But hey, if you want it illegal to have sex unless you've taken the correct classes and passed the right tests good for you.

As a matter of fact it might help society by not allowing the very stupid to reproduce. But I think most people would view this as a tyrannical government.

Maybe you could have forced sterilization of kids at the age of 15 or so if they can't pass the tests.

Originally posted by Eladar
The family unit is the basic unit of society. If the government intrudes on the family without cause, it would be tyrrany.

People are the basic units of society. Look it up. The concept of 'family' is very fluid, look that up too. Anyway, by your own argument, the govt should be involved here. Basic common sense laws for interaction in society, which you say is a primary purpose of govt, must include birthing and raising children; and the govt can do so without tyranny if it has cause. Protecting children is of course sufficient cause.

But hey, if you want it illegal to have sex unless you've taken the correct classes and passed the right tests good for you.
That's a potential path, but I already separated the concepts of 'having sex' and children. A better idea, imo, is to prevent pregnancies that are not intended and prepared for.

As a matter of fact it might help society by not allowing the very stupid to reproduce.
I don't agree with this. My reasoning has some complications in it, but all that is a side issue. You've agreed for the third time that govt involvement is appropriate re childbirth and child rearing.

Originally posted by Eladar
Maybe you could have forced sterilization of kids at the age of 15 or so if they can't pass the tests.

Or at birth. Reserve the tests for when they want to make some kids. I'm assuming reversible sterilization.

Originally posted by apathist
Why is there govt, Eladar. You want no govt? No village? Anarchy?

Warlords will rise.

We're already seeing these 'warlords' rise in America with all these corporate CEOs gaining even more power. Real power, over real people. The next step was to place these obscenely wealthy people, the 1%, in seats of power over the people. The US Constitution starts "We the People", not "We the Wealthy", for a reason.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Debunked is not the same as denied.

Debunked, as in, shown to be not true.

Originally posted by apathist
Or at birth. Reserve the tests for when they want to make some kids. I'm assuming reversible sterilization.

It's your policy.

Originally posted by apathist

Originally posted by Eladar
The family unit is the basic unit of society. If the government intrudes on the family without cause, it would be tyrrany.

[b]People are the basic units of society.

Hence the serf. To you people are the government's cattle.

Originally posted by Eladar
Hence the serf. To you people are the government's cattle.

I see earth as a starship. Unrestrained procreation is fine enough when the abundance of nature sates our needs. But ultimately the resources are limited, and a balance must be struck or our species dies out.
Are we cancer on the face of earth, growing growing growing until we kill the host?

Oh wait, that's a related but separate issue. Here is about cars and babies. We regulate driving, is that a bad thing? Are babies less important than cars?

No, and no, of course. What reason can you share for thinking that procreation should not involve the community?

Originally posted by apathist
I see earth as a starship. Unrestrained procreation is fine enough when the abundance of nature sates our needs. But ultimately the resources are limited, and a balance must be struck or our species dies out.
Are we cancer on the face of earth, growing growing growing until we kill the host?

Oh wait, that's a related but separate issue. Here is about ...[text shortened]... ourse. What reason can you share for thinking that procreation should not involve the community?

Try to sell your sterilize everyone at birth and make them pass tests to be able to reproduce the idea.

See how many people buy it and see how many people call it tyrrant.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Debunked, as in, shown to be not true.

You don't believe they were selling parts?

Originally posted by apathist
I merely took your argument and changed 'babies' to 'cars', and you don't like the result. We regulate driving, and that is a good thing, isn't it? But birthing is less important than driving?

You have something to say, Kelly, so say it. Humans should not regulate childbirth why now.

If you were to say we should treat having babies as being no different than driving
a car then we left freedom so that then having a baby is a state given privilege not a
God given right which we have regardless of government. You really do want to be
a slave of the state where it tells you everything for your own good.

Originally posted by apathist
Govt eats kids. Well known fact.

When it can tell you when you can and cannot have them, it can tell you anything it wants.

Originally posted by Eladar
Try to sell your sterilize everyone at birth and make them pass tests to be able to reproduce the idea.

See how many people buy it and see how many people call it tyrrant.

I recognize the truth of your point here. Major cultural change happens slowly and of necessity. I hope we don't wake up too late.

Originally posted by KellyJay
When it can tell you when you can and cannot have them, it can tell you anything it wants.

Cars and babies, Kelly. The needs of the community outweighs individual desire and behavior, especially when such selfish behavior is based on religious tenets. And your religion is the source of your disagreement here, is it not.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you were to say we should treat having babies as being no different than driving
a car then we left freedom so that then having a baby is a state given privilege not a
God given right which we have regardless of government. You really do want to be
a slave of the state where it tells you everything for your own good.

If you were to say we should treat driving cars as being no different than having a baby then we left freedom so that then driving a car is a state given privilege not a
God given right which we have regardless of government. You really do want to be
a slave of the state where it tells you everything for your own good.