The Moral Argument for God's Existence

@KellyJay

Philosophers have wrestled with morality issues.
Christian theologians and philosophers I think bring it in as evidence of God.

What do you think of this little critique of Moral Relativism?

YouTube

@sonship

Very good, I didn't get to hear the whole thing because I have to leave, when I
get back I'll start over and listen it again.

@sonship

I love the quote the Bible. But this is more of a philosophical argument rather than one about the teaching of Christ and the apostles.

It is about the source of our real and legitimate convictions of what is really good for us to do. And to whom are the moral duties to be good rather than evil owed.

I agree with you that we can leave the Bible out of this. It is irrelevant to the opening argument. To see that the moral argument for God's existence is a bad argument, all we need are some Euthyphro-like considerations and some working notion of objectivity.

As to the rest, I think you have a failed understanding of duty. Moral duties could only be owed to the receivers of one's morally relevant actions. There is no other reading of it that could make sense. What could possibly explain your having moral duties owed to some sky fairy, as opposed to being owed to the actual entities that stand to be benefitted or harmed by your actions? Please provide some considerations.

Again, it seems clear that your religious outlook is essentially childish and developmentally stunted. You are just like the child who thinks “Stop hitting your sister!!!” is something the satisfaction of which is owed to the parent who will punish you if you disobey.

@lemonjello said
@sonship

I love the quote the Bible. But this is more of a philosophical argument rather than one about the teaching of Christ and the apostles.

It is about the source of our real and legitimate convictions of what is really good for us to do. And to whom are the moral duties to be good rather than evil owed.

I agree with you that we can leave the B ...[text shortened]... !!” is something the satisfaction of which is owed to the parent who will punish you if you disobey.

There is obviously no moral obligation towards an imaginary sky fairy. But towards the Creator of the universe? The buck has to stop somewhere...

@lemonjello said
@sonship

I love the quote the Bible. But this is more of a philosophical argument rather than one about the teaching of Christ and the apostles.

It is about the source of our real and legitimate convictions of what is really good for us to do. And to whom are the moral duties to be good rather than evil owed.

I agree with you that we can leave the B ...[text shortened]... !!” is something the satisfaction of which is owed to the parent who will punish you if you disobey.

Leaving the Bible out then bringing up some sky fairy seems like a back door insult
to scripture while agreeing it should be left out. Duties owned by anyone requires
a bound that holds people accountable, if there isn't really a bound that binds us
than nothing can really be claimed "should be" done. Benefits and considerations
are not measures of strength of arguments towards accountability. I can look at
any benefit in an agreement and move towards obligating myself towards keeping
my word in the agreement, but if I see my position change by not being
accountable to what I said, does that release me? Why would I even feel the need
to look for a reason to be released from an agreement if I want out, I get out,
reasons only have to be given if there is something required. If there isn't
anything really binding me to keep my word for success, why then should I if I
can get away with it?

@kellyjay said
Why would I even feel the need
to look for a reason to be released from an agreement if I want out, I get out,
reasons only have to be given if there is something required. If there isn't
anything really binding me to keep my word for success, why then should I if I
can get away with it?

Haven't you yourself offered an explanation for this? You've asserted repeatedly that you are "wicked and evil". Maybe that's why you don't keep your word and do things because you feel you can get away with them.

@fmf said
Haven't you yourself offered an explanation for this? You've asserted repeatedly that you are "wicked and evil". Maybe that's why you don't keep your word and do things because you feel you can get away with them.

I have repeatedly said we cannot get good enough on our own, that is not saying
that we don't strive to walk holy lives. What word have I given you think I have not
kept?

@kellyjay said
I have repeatedly said we cannot get good enough on our own, that is not saying
that we don't strive to walk holy lives. What word have I given you think I have not
kept?

If your belief in supernatural beings helps you to keep your word why would that apply to others ~ to me, for example? The fact that you (say you) keep your word is not proof that the supernatural being exists.

@kellyjay said
I have repeatedly said we cannot get good enough on our own, that is not saying
that we don't strive to walk holy lives.

You have repeatedly described yourself as "evil" and "wicked".

@fmf said
If your belief in supernatural beings helps you to keep your word why would that apply to others ~ to me, for example? The fact that you (say you) keep your word is not proof that the supernatural being exists.

My belief in the supernatural is breaking my word?
When you have point let me know.

@kellyjay said
My belief in the supernatural is breaking my word?

Huh?

This is exactly what I wrote: If your belief in supernatural beings helps you to keep your word why would that apply to others ~ to me, for example?

The fact that you (say you) keep your word is not proof that the supernatural being exists.

You replying with "My belief in the supernatural is breaking my word?" is a complete non-sequitur.

@fmf said
Huh?

This is exactly what I wrote: If your belief in supernatural beings helps you to keep your word why would that apply to others ~ to me, for example?

The fact that you (say you) keep your word is not proof that the supernatural being exists.

You replying with "My belief in the supernatural is breaking my word?" is a complete non-sequitur.

" Maybe that's why you don't keep your word and do things because you feel you can get away with them."

I think you memory needs a little work.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

Philosophers have wrestled with morality issues.
Christian theologians and philosophers I think bring it in as evidence of God.

What do you think of this little critique of Moral Relativism?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GykkuulgY2E

Liked it.

@KellyJay

That was a reply to the specific content of an earlier post of yours and not the post your non-sequitur was 'replying' to. Don't be deceitful.

@fmf said
@KellyJay

That was a reply to the specific content of an earlier post of yours and not the post your non-sequitur was 'replying' to. Don't be deceitful.

You should practice what you preach!