The Lord sent a pestilence

@rajk999 said
I said nothing of the sort. The actions of God cannot be summed up in these cute little one-liners like God is Love and God so loved the world that .... etc etc. These are for people who choose not to read and understand the bible, and live in a delusion that all is well if they believe the lies preached by the church. I cannot say whether God punishes unjustly or where he ...[text shortened]... s and stays within his boundaries because the consequences of moving out of that can be devastating.

<<I cannot say whether God punishes unjustly or where he punishment fits the crime. I do not have all the information I need to made that decision.>>

Wow. So you think you have the authority to determine if God punishes unjustly? That’s quite a position you’re taking.

<<Here is one about Pharoah, who was raised up and groomed so that God can show his power through him.>>

Wrong. God only displayed His power through Pharaoh after Pharaoh had continually refused Moses’ entreaties to let the children of Israel go.

<<Christians in particular like to believe that their profession of faith makes them immune from punishment and damnation.>>

Punishment, no. The Holy Bible makes clear that children of God are subject to correction and discipline (chastening and scourging.) But that has a purpose beyond punishment.

Damnation? Yeah, Christians are excluded from that.

And it’s funny how you talk about Christians as though you’re not one.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Look at the passage in the OP. God kills 70,000 Israelites because God is displeased with David.

How is that not a case of God punishing unjustly, of his punishment not fitting the crime?! Like, seriously?

God of Vengeance is not publicised much. Strangely Christians will tell you that you will burn in hell for eternity for not professing faith in Christ, and then say that is a just punishment.

@pb1022 said
<<I cannot say whether God punishes unjustly or where he punishment fits the crime. I do not have all the information I need to made that decision.>>

Wow. So you think you have the authority to determine if God punishes unjustly? That’s quite a position you’re taking.

<<Here is one about Pharoah, who was raised up and groomed so that God can show his power through him.>> ...[text shortened]... ns are excluded from that.

And it’s funny how you talk about Christians as though you’re not one.

Im not a church Christian. If you think Christians will not face punishment or damnation that you are the very type that is living in a delusion.

The bible says that God raised up Pharaoh so that he can show his power. God hardened his heart so that he will be disobedient.

@rajk999 said
God of Vengeance is not publicised much. Strangely Christians will tell you that you will burn in hell for eternity for not professing faith in Christ, and then say that is a just punishment.

You don’t seem to acknowledge or understand what Jesus Christ did on the cross.

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

(John 1:17)

“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”

(Romans 6:14)

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”

(Galatians 3:23-26)

How many more verses do you want?

Like I said, you’re still living in the Old Testament.

@rajk999 said
Im not a church Christian. If you think Christians will not face punishment or damnation that you are the very type that is living in a delusion.

The bible says that God raised up Pharaoh so that he can show his power. God hardened his heart so that he will be disobedient.

<<The bible says that God raised up Pharaoh so that he can show his power. God hardened his heart so that he will be disobedient.>>

Pharaoh was refusing to do what Moses wanted - and refusing repeatedly - before God intervened.

God used Pharaoh’s stubbornness and disobedience against him *after* Pharaoh had already displayed it.

@pb1022 said
Feel free not to elaborate and to pretend I don’t exist

You can drop the Christian pose. Please try to live more honestly.
Out of respect for my Christian friends, please don't use Christian scriptures falsely.
If you have been hurt by Christians, I for one would commiserate.
That doesn't mean you are fated to act out the "hurt people hurt other people" template.

@pb1022 said
You don’t seem to acknowledge or understand what Jesus Christ did on the cross.

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

(John 1:17)

“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”

(Romans 6:14)

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should aft ...[text shortened]... 3-26)

How many more verses do you want?

Like I said, you’re still living in the Old Testament.

Those verses say nothing.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

You seem more full of false assumptions than of Christ or the Holy Spirit.

@pb1022 said
<<The bible says that God raised up Pharaoh so that he can show his power. God hardened his heart so that he will be disobedient.>>

Pharaoh was refusing to do what Moses wanted - and refusing repeatedly - before God intervened.

God used Pharaoh’s stubbornness and disobedience against him *after* Pharaoh had already displayed it.

You really not good at english comprehension. Here is the GNB version

For the scripture says to the king of Egypt, "I made you king in order to use you to show my power and to spread my fame over the whole world." So then, God has mercy on anyone he wishes, and he makes stubborn anyone he wishes. But one of you will say to me, "If this is so, how can God find fault with anyone? Who can resist God's will?" But who are you, my friend, to talk back to God? A clay pot does not ask the man who made it, "Why did you make me like this?" After all, the man who makes the pots has the right to use the clay as he wishes, and to make two pots from the same lump of clay, one for special occasions and the other for ordinary use. And the same is true of what God has done. He wanted to show his anger and to make his power known. But he was very patient in enduring those who were the objects of his anger, who were doomed to destruction. (Romans 9:17-22 GNB)

See if you can figure out that it is God that made Pharaoh stubborn. The man was just a pawn in the whole scenario

@rajk999 said
You really not good at english comprehension. Here is the GNB version

[i]For the scripture says to the king of Egypt, "I made you king in order to use you to show my power and to spread my fame over the whole world." So then, God has mercy on anyone he wishes, and he makes stubborn anyone he wishes. But one of you will say to me, "If this is so, how can God find fault with ...[text shortened]... ure out that it is God that made Pharaoh stubborn. The man was just a pawn in the whole scenario[/b]

Why don’t you quote the account directly from the event as recorded in the Old Testament?

Why are you using the New Testament to characterize an event in the Old Testament? Why not go to the source and see what that says?

@rajk999 said
Those verses say nothing.

Wow. More selective Holy Bible reading.

If verses and passages go against your false doctrine, they mean nothing.

And you actually think you have authority to judge God? You’re really out there, amigo - more so than I thought.

You don’t worship God, you worship yourself.

Know who else did that and thought he was better than God?

@pb1022 said
BTW, Ghosty, you’re aware that King David chose his punishment, right? That he was given three options and chose pestilence.

Thought that should be mentioned upfront since you neglected to mention it.

Is your God so easily led? Does He allow His justice and mercy to be compromised by a human? Didn't an omniscient God know of the huge loss of life the pestilence would cause?

The post that was quoted here has been removed

"You’re obnoxious and dishonest, like most atheists. You insult people and bear false witness against them from behind a keyboard because you’re a coward."


Let's be clear here. On this site, I have shared personal and truthful information about my studies and current line of work. Under your previous account you repeatedly (and with relish) mocked and derided both these things and 'bore false witness against 'me' from behind a keyboard.' Do you deny this? Are you also a coward? Were you clever and witty?