the insanity of faith

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I don't believe faith is insanity I believe we all live by it, people can be insane, faith not so much.

Methinks faith without direct experience is insanity; faith with direct experience is faith no more, it is knowledge;
😵

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You should maybe get out more and meet some genuine Christians. 😉

Allow me to clarify:

I have never met anybody, 'including genuine Christians,' who genuinely love their enemy.'

Managing to act kindly towards an enemy, or even forgiving them, is 'not' love by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Platitudinous straight out of your arse poppycock.

So why in your opinion does the Bible tell us to love our enemies if we are unable to choose to do so?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Allow me to clarify:

I have never met anybody, 'including genuine Christians,' who genuinely love their enemy.'

Managing to act kindly towards an enemy, or even forgiving them, is 'not' love by any stretch of the imagination.

How could you tell whether or not someone genuinely loves their enemies?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So why in your opinion does the Bible tell us to love our enemies if we are unable to choose to do so?

The same reason we tell our children to aim for the stars, despite there being little chance of reaching them.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
The same reason we tell our children to aim for the stars, despite there being little chance of reaching them.

Let me guess the Bible also says we should repent, believe, trust and obey etc, despite there being little chance of ever being able to do it? 🙄

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Allow me to clarify:

I have never met anybody, 'including genuine Christians,' who genuinely love their enemy.'

Managing to act kindly towards an enemy, or even forgiving them, is 'not' love by any stretch of the imagination.

How in your opinion would someone act if they loved their enemy?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
How in your opinion would someone act if they loved their enemy?

You really appear to compete against yourself; your insight as regards Love almost equals your knowledge about Karma😵

Originally posted by @black-beetle
Methinks faith without direct experience is insanity; faith with direct experience is faith no more, it is knowledge;
😵

Why in the world would you believe that, and what advantage is faith with experience over
any other kind, since faith in what isn't true can lead to a down fall?

Also knowledge and faith are two different things, and if your faith in your knowledge is
that you think your knowledge is without error, which doesn't always ring true.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Why in the world would you believe that, and what advantage is faith with experience over
any other kind, since faith in what isn't true can lead to a down fall?

Also knowledge and faith are two different things, and if your faith in your knowledge is
that you think your knowledge is without error, which doesn't always ring true.

Edit: Why in the world would you believe that and what advantage is faith with experience over any other kind, since faith in either that isn't true can lead to a down fall?

Very good point, thumbs up!
Well, I acknowledge levels of understanding. Faith is important in order to motivate one’s first step of one’s journey to understanding by means of experiencing, for it temporary frees one from the discomfort of doubt, it helps one to concentrate one’s potential on a ideal that for the time being it cannot yet be reached, and it helps to prepare one’s power to meditate in order to achieve the substantiation of the direct experience of one’s ideal. In my opinion, faith is used in the beginning of each spiritual quest.
See it also this way, kellyjay: I mean that you, a Christian, can associate with G-d out of faith, but you will come to know G-d truly out only if you manage to establish your personal truth (your personal understanding) by means of using your own conceptual and non-conceptual awareness. Faith is your first tool, which is discarded when you achieve understanding. Faith is merely a tool for your first step –this is how I see it. When you are dead sure that your knowledge is valid, you need faith not; when you are not sure that your knowledge is valid, you are still high on faith.


Edit: Also knowledge and faith are two different things, and your faith in your knowledge is that you think your knowledge is without error, which doesn't always ring true.

Knowledge and faith are different horses, yes, and I do not define knowledge as a fruit of faith. To me, knowledge is the fruit of direct experience and accurate evaluation of the mind, and, as such, it stands beyond faith and doubt. I trust my knowledge fully –but I have no faith in my knowledge, therefore I constantly struggle for re-evaluations as regards everything. Methinks without constant cross-check of knowledge, one cannot expand;
😵

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Let me guess the Bible also says we should repent, believe, trust and obey etc, despite there being little chance of ever being able to do it? 🙄

The bible asks you to do a great number of things that aren't attainable to the vast majority of people, and this includes loving your enemy and 'go and sin no more.' The logical conclusion is that these instructions are to motivate us to do the very best be can in striving to achieve these aims, no matter how near impossible they are to actually achieve. Jesus might as well have instructed us to 'go and walk on water.'

On the issue of loving your enemy, trying flipping it on its head and asking yourself if it is possible to 'choose' to hate a friend who is undeserving of that hatred? Is that something you could choose to do?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
How in your opinion would someone act if they loved their enemy?

On a simplistic level, an enemy is somebody you hate. Hatred is the antithesis of love, so the very idea of choosing to love something you hate is itself nonsensical.

Now, even if you somehow managed to love your enemy, it is extremely unlikely your enemy would reciprocate (He is after all your enemy). So in answer to your question, someone loving their enemy would be acting recklessly and putting themselves in a vulnerable position, as their enemy is more likely to take advantage of this undeserved love and use it against them.

Originally posted by @fmf
I don't think that "love" is a choice. Furthermore, whodey claimed that the ability of people to choose to "love" those who hate them is a "supernatural thing". I think it's nonsense. Tolerate. Ignore. Understand. Maybe, but not "love". I think this kind of whodeytalk is mere self-serving ideology-driven psychobabble.

You are getting it wrong again.

Agape love has nothing to do with actually liking someone and everything to do with treating them how you would want to be treated as someone who is made in the image of God.

Again, it has nothing to do with liking them but choosing to treat them as people made in the image of God, no matter how unpalatable they may be.

Originally posted by @whodey
You are getting it wrong again.

Agape love has nothing to do with actually liking someone and everything to do with treating them how you would want to be treated as someone who is made in the image of God.

Again, it has nothing to do with liking them but choosing to treat them as people made in the image of God, no matter how unpalatable they may be.

You are talking self-deluding nonsense. You have been talking incessantly about your "enemies" on the debates forum, for however many years it's been, in the most odious, hateful, and dehumanizing way. Tens of thousands of nasty, spiteful and often dishonest posts about your "enemies". A few pretentious and deceiful posts on this forum cannot disguise the fruits of your supposed "love".

Originally posted by @fmf
You are talking self-deluding nonsense. You have been talking incessantly about your "enemies" on the debates forum, for however many years it's been, in the most odious, hateful, and dehumanizing way. Tens of thousands of nasty, spiteful and often dishonest posts about your "enemies". A few pretentious and deceiful posts on this forum cannot disguise the fruits of your supposed "love".

Since I've been on these forums, you have continuously attacked my behavior and character and trolled every thread as an ad homonym attack. If you don't with to debate the items discussed so be it.